Settle an argument between my friend and I. He thinks demo has better AoE than destro

[Deleted]

As some of the guys here have already said, Demo is actually the better AoE Spec not only because of the extremely high burst capabilities but in the long run, I believe it's better because of how mobile it is and also how much easier it is to manage your resources compared to Destro. FnB just doesn't hit hard enough to compare too well.

On another note, I'm pretty sure that everybody mentioning Affliction here has somewhat linked it to the old Soul Swap bug in which yeah, Affliction >>>>>>>>> Demo > Destruction.

[Pungchow]

well destro does not have rain of fire anymore so havoc cleave is about it demo has the whirlwind from pet and cleave from pet and hand of guldan on all targets and corruption i have seen in dungeons 5 man heroics with 665 gear 42 k aoe which is retarded my destro spec can not get that high ever also take in account dungeon buff to dps.

[Deleted]

Ever since the Rain of Fire nerf, your friend is unfortunately right. Destruction's AoE becomes better if they can consistently hit 6 or more targets for a moderate ammount of time. Demonology on the other hand is very flexible as it can provide very, very good burst AoE and decent sustained AoE even with a small ammount of targets.

[Mystickiller]

Who's right? Destro definitely has better AoE than demo does it not?

Destro wins 2 target dps but overall I feel demo has a lot better AoE
2xHoG, double felguard, infernal, mannoroths fury with immolation aura. aaand did I forget something?

[Jessicka]

Destro wins 2 target dps but overall I feel demo has a lot better AoE
2xHoG, double felguard, infernal, mannoroths fury with immolation aura. aaand did I forget something?

Cataclysm.

All that means nice burst, but once your Fury's gone and you're down to spamming Hellfire, things tail off a lot. Fast.

[striderZA]

Cataclysm.

All that means nice burst, but once your Fury's gone and you're down to spamming Hellfire, things tail off a lot. Fast.

Don't think I recall ever having used Hellfire this tier, or the last.

[DeadmanWalking]

If the packs are large destro wins. Start with Cata and DS to spread spead the dots and then spam aoe freely. If cata is down havok up to 1.5 embers, spread dots, spam away. Once the pack is below 20% you just spam shotgun shadowburn and watch the meters burst. Small packs, demo.

[Zevoa]

Don't think I recall ever having used Hellfire this tier, or the last.

This haha, it's not a viable means of fury generation in nearly all circumstances and you're ultimately going to be doing more damage to yourself then the mobs by doing so.

[Gaidax]

Depends, really... Cataclysm aside, If it's 10 seconds AoE burst, Demo will win hands down due to 2x Chaos Wave, Immo Aura and Felstorm, but longer than that and Destruction will overtake, IMO.

A small clause here is if Destruction Warlock is specced into Charred Remains then it will be a tie first 10 seconds, then Destro will lead by huge margin.

Considering AoE scenario that lasts more than 10 seconds is extremely rare, it can be concluded that Demo is indeed better for practical AoE, especially considering that Charred Remains blows for just about anything besides AoE.

[Gravityx]

Destro has better cleave (if the targets aren't stacked) , Demo has better AoE and burst AoE.

Thats not completely true either. Destro only has better cleave if the targets are dying enough to continuously get ember return. For example on a fight like Twin Ogron, Destro is the worst of the three specs.

[striderZA]

Thats not completely true either. Destro only has better cleave if the targets are dying enough to continuously get ember return. For example on a fight like Twin Ogron, Destro is the worst of the three specs.

Fair enough, Destro cleave is mostly dependent on Shadowburn. Although, Twin Orgron isn't the best example, considering how often you have to move.

[Deleted]

depens highly what you mean by AoE
Destro does single target + cleave until a certain threshold when FnB becomes available and the AoE can start
at the point where Destro can actually do AoE i would say destro pulls ahead in the long run.
in all other cases i say demo is better, meaning fewer targets to AoE and burst AoE

bosses for AoE in HM:
Kargath , when on chain hurl duty
Tectus, at most 4 targets
Ko'ragh, Spirits in shield phase
Imperator, Adds... hf with your healers complaints when you AoE them down

i would say demo is better in all of these AoE cases

[theburned]

depens highly what you mean by AoE
Destro does single target + cleave until a certain threshold when FnB becomes available and the AoE can start
at the point where Destro can actually do AoE i would say destro pulls ahead in the long run.
in all other cases i say demo is better, meaning fewer targets to AoE and burst AoE

bosses for AoE in HM:
Kargath , when on chain hurl duty
Tectus, at most 4 targets
Ko'ragh, Spirits in shield phase
Imperator, Adds... hf with your healers complaints when you AoE them down

i would say demo is better in all of these AoE cases

Tectus has up to 12(3-4-12) units though, nevertheless demo is better due to high movement.
Also imperator has little proof that demo is in anyway better.
Bracken is also better for destro, but demo seems to be in quite a good spot atm.

[Shamran]

Depends, really... Cataclysm aside, If it's 10 seconds AoE burst, Demo will win hands down due to 2x Chaos Wave, Immo Aura and Felstorm, but longer than that and Destruction will overtake, IMO.

A small clause here is if Destruction Warlock is specced into Charred Remains then it will be a tie first 10 seconds, then Destro will lead by huge margin.

Considering AoE scenario that lasts more than 10 seconds is extremely rare, it can be concluded that Demo is indeed better for practical AoE, especially considering that Charred Remains blows for just about anything besides AoE.

To a large extent, this mirrors my own evaluation. There are a few caveats with the present situation, though:

For Demo AoE to be practically better, it has to be a short 10 second-ish window, as pointed out. The short window, however, also has a tendency to make Demo AoE a little fickle. For example, provided you follow a normal rotation, you run the risk of not having 2 x CW available when that AOE burst window presents itself. 1) Charges could have been spent on HoG; 2) You could have just performed a DB dump so that you're DF starved. The latter, I reckon, is especially true at the moment since very few fights, if any, promote using Cata over DB. Take Imperator for example. Cata's viable, of course, because of add group phases, but it'd mostly help you cheese meters and not necessarily help your raid with meaningful dps as much as DB would.

If that's the premise, realizing the full potential of Demo AoE would be possible in the situation where the AoE window presents itself when 1) DB is on cooldown, 2) you have enough DF for CW x 2 and IA and 3) CW charges aren't already spent on HoG. The same goes for Wrathstorm being on cooldown, I guess, although that'd be more straightforward to delay for an upcoming AoE window.

When it all comes together, the potential is explosive and planning ahead will help as always, of course. But your options in terms of delaying either HoG or DB to wait for an upcoming AoE window are very restricted. And when all those things don't come together, there's a tendency for Demo AoE to be a little clunky and marked by huge disparity - as in: When you CAN fire off IA, 2 x CW and Wrathstorm, Demo AoE is virtually second to none, and when that's not the case, Demo AoE is decidedly lacklustre.

[fiestatastic]

I doubt that. That boss in HoF with bazzilion of adds as afflic wasn't even close to destro AoE, and they lived for quite a while.

ummm yeah, on wind lord demo was king, aff was the runner up and destro was a distaaaaaaaaaant way back in the back on. Yeah I'm not sure what logs you were looking, but destro was a chump on that fight in comparison.

[ro9ue]

It just struck me, I'm sure I recall Xelnath saying in their internal tests that Affliction AoE was by far the strongest in the game for sustained, and that's why they were loath to change it. The problem was that the setup and length necessary to shine with it is just impractical, and unrealistic in a proper raid situation but they kinda like to keep the door open on encounter design so that tied their hands.

It's too bad Affliction AOE can't go back to what it was in Wrath -> Seed spamming. Was absolutely godly back then and I really miss it.

[Gaidax]

Now that I think about it, with T17 sets coming soon, Demonology will be much more powerful when it comes to AoE.

[Deleted]

Now that I think about it, with T17 sets coming soon, Demonology will be much more powerful when it comes to AoE.

imagine having the 4pc setbonus on tectus with all the motes, use cata to get corruption up on all of them and HoG away lol.

[Santoisms]

imagine having the 4pc setbonus on tectus with all the motes, use cata to get corruption up on all of them and HoG away lol.

Good idea.

[Jessicka]

imagine having the 4pc setbonus on tectus with all the motes, use cata to get corruption up on all of them and HoG away lol.

Shame it'll be an obsolete fight once BRF drops. Besides, with the change to Charred Remains, you might have to start looking over your shoulder at the AoE Chaos Bolts...