Pope: "If a friend says bad things about my mother , I can give a punch, is normal."

[Zigrifid]

Respecting beliefs isnt respecting someone , imo ideas and beliefs should be respected , respecting a human being thats different.

[Deleted]

Meh, I always thought that was a bullshit phrase used by aggressive folks to justify disrespecting anyone they don't like (for arbitrary reasons). Personally, when I meet someone on the street, I treat him with respect. Your philosophy is rather antisocial one, since in its extreme form, nobody would respect anyone until they actually do something to earn respect... but since they don't respect you either, why should they earn your respect? It's a dead end.

You'd might have a point if we would be living in a black and white world where you can only disrespect and respect someone, but we dont, so you dont have a point.

There are those things called indifference and apathy. Someone telling you that s/he does not respect you is not equivalent to disrespecting you. When someone tells you that it makes more sense to assume that s/he simply doesnt give a damn about you. It means that person simply tolerates you and lets you slide by without giving as much as even a glance on who you are or what you stand for.

Ofcourse you might say that you might feel disrespected by him. To which I say, get the fuck over yourself and put a leash on your feelz.

[Deleted]

Meh, I always thought that was a bullshit phrase used by aggressive folks to justify disrespecting anyone they don't like (for arbitrary reasons). Personally, when I meet someone on the street, I treat him with respect. Your philosophy is rather antisocial one, since in its extreme form, nobody would respect anyone until they actually do something to earn respect... but since they don't respect you either, why should they earn your respect? It's a dead end.

Because respect and tolerance are two different things, i'm fine with tolerating that everyone has their own religion. It's not my place to bs them about it, but it's not their place to force me to have respect for it.

[Slant]

There really isn't anything new. Catholicism always acknowledged that violence is a normal, natural, response. That's the meaning of Original Sin, after all.

I know this because I want to get married at a Catholic church and I'm boning up on the basics.

Um, you should go and "bone up" some more, because that is not even close to the actual meaning. What do you use to learn about Catholicism? A comic? Bloody hell...

[Deleted]

The pope preaches non-violence. So do the vast majority of Imams in Islam. But hey, let's take wild hyperbolic nerdrage on the internet and make a bold post. I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't cry out for pitchforks and torches so we can start our internet crusade against... someone. :P

He literally said 'It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.' Literally. In the context of limits to free speech.

[Crissi]

Because respect and tolerance are two different things, i'm fine with tolerating that everyone has their own religion. It's not my place to bs them about it, but it's not their place to force me to have respect for it.

Well, you don't need to verbally agree with them, or even engage them. Just don't openly insult to their faces would be enough respect.

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He literally said 'It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.' Literally. In the context of limits to free speech.

There is no such thing as consequence free speech. Something might have gotten lost in translation, but I took it of instead of a command "thou shall not insult faith", I took it more as a caution "you shouldn't, because people of this faith will feel insulted and you might face consequences".

[Merkava]

That is exactly what the Pope was trying to explain.

Here's the whole exchange. Judge for yourselves.

Question - Holy Father, yesterday at mass you spoke about religious freedom as a fundamental human right. But in the respect for the different religions, up to what point can one go in freedom of expression? That too is a fundamental human right.

Pope: As for freedom of expression: each one not only has the freedom, the right but also the obligation to say what one thinks to help the common good. The obligation! Let’s think, if a member of parliament or a senator doesn’t say what he thinks is the right path then he does not collaborate for the common good. Not only these, but many others too. We have the obligation to say openly, to have this liberty, but without giving offence, because it is true, one cannot react violently. But if Dr. Gasbarri (the papal trip organizer who was standing beside him), a good friend, says a bad word against my mother, then a punch awaits him. But it’s normal, it’s normal. One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith. Pope Benedict in a speech, I don’t remember exactly where, he spoke of this post-positivist mentality, of post-positivist metaphysics, that led to the belief that in the end religions, religious expressions, are a kind of subculture, which are tolerated but are of little value, are not on the Enlightenment culture. And this is part of the heritage of the Enlightenment. And so many people who speak badly about other religions, or religions [in general], they make fun of, let’s say toy with [make into toys] other people’s religions, these people provoke and there can occur what would happen to Dr. Gasbarri if he said something against my mother. That is, there is a limit. Every religion has dignity; every religion that respects life, human life, the human person. And I cannot make fun of it. This is a limit and I have taken this sense of limit to say that in freedom of expression there are limits, like that in regard to my mother. I don’t know if I have managed to answer the question.

That position is indefensible. And it will be walked back further.

[Slant]

You'd might have a point if we would be living in a black and white world where you can only disrespect and respect someone, but we dont, so you dont have a point.

There are those things called indifference and apathy. Someone telling you that s/he does not respect you is not equivalent to disrespecting you. When someone tells you that it makes more sense to assume that s/he simply doesnt give a damn about you. It means that person simply tolerates you and lets you slide by without giving as much as even a glance on who you are or what you stand for.

Ofcourse you might say that you might feel disrespected by him. To which I say, get the fuck over yourself and put a leash on your feelz.

Hmm, you got a point about neutrality. But that still doesn't gain anyone respect. So doesn't really change much, does it? I like the "cool bit" at the end, btw... makes you sound really bad assy and masculine. I was slightly impressed, tbh. But nah, that post didn't convince me. I'll just continue giving every human being the benefit of the doubt and show them the respect they're due simply because they exist. See, I'm living in a friendly world where everyone starts out with a basic amount of respect.

Not sure where you're from, but it sounds like a fucking unfriendly place to me. But hey, go ahead and live life your way.

[NewOrleansTrolley]

Um, you should go and "bone up" some more, because that is not even close to the actual meaning. What do you use to learn about Catholicism? A comic? Bloody hell...

Why are you instantly aggressive? Did I offend you because you disagree with me? Even if I was young enough to be foolish to get into an internet 'debate' with you, you clearly have multiple issues that have nothing to do with the thread topic, man.

Maybe when you calm down and mature, we can discuss what the pope meant and the idea of original sin. But right now, you're thinking irrationally here.

[Anium]

You should always respect everyone and everyone's religion unless you have actual reasons to not respect them. Does that sound better?

Just to make it clear, whatever happened with muslim radicals does not in any way constitute a reason to start disrespecting Islam as a religion. I quite like the Pope's stance on this. It's in line with the modern catholicism dogma to interact with other religions rather than confront them (violently) as they have done in the past.

I'm sorry man, but no, absolutely not. No one is free from satire, not a person, nor government, nor religion.
If you believe such groups are exempt from satire then you're a fool.
If a "supporter" of any of the three aforementions groups believed in their cause so much they wouldn't pay attention to the small group saying other wise.

It's mindsets like this which hinder any progressive path.

[Gumboy]

Why are you instantly aggressive? Did I offend you because you disagree with me? Even if I was young enough to be foolish to get into an internet 'debate' with you, you clearly have multiple issues that have nothing to do with the thread topic, man. Maybe you calm down and mature, we can discuss what he meant.

What did he say that was aggressive?

[Aqueous]

LOL.

I just got images of Assassin's Creed 2 now with Pope Alexander (Borgia) vs. Ezio.

Yeaaaaa, Pope Francis vs. Muhammad Ali.

"You insult my father. You insult my family. Prepare to die."

FIGHT.

[Cjeska]

And you should always respect other people's religion.

Even though this religion preaches hate against women, gays and "non-beliefers".

The argument "you should respect/accept xyz without any questions asked" is usually made by those without facts or a backbone.

[Deleted]

Hmm, you got a point about neutrality. But that still doesn't gain anyone respect. So doesn't really change much, does it? I like the "cool bit" at the end, btw... makes you sound really bad assy and masculine. I was slightly impressed, tbh. But nah, that post didn't convince me. I'll just continue giving every human being the benefit of the doubt and show them the respect they're due simply because they exist. See, I'm living in a friendly world where everyone starts out with a basic amount of respect.

Not sure where you're from, but it sounds like a fucking unfriendly place to me. But hey, go ahead and live life your way.

Passive aggresive as hell.

[Slant]

He literally said 'It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.' Literally. In the context of limits to free speech.

Yes, and here's the newsflash to you...

Whenever anyone (!) ever tells you about the mystical thing called "free speech", they are lying to you!

There is no absolute free speech, without consequence, without any reaction. If you think there is, you really need to wake up and join us in the real world... you know, where you get repercussions from telling someone his mum looks like the contents of the bag you just threw into the trash.

[Gumboy]

Even though this religion preaches hate against women, gays and "non-beliefers".

The argument "you should respect/accept xyz without any questions asked" is usually made by those without facts or a backbone.

Oh look, someone that knows nothing about religion trying to bash it. Cute!

[zorkuus]

If you say I'm going to suffer an eternity in hell I will punch you. How about them apples?

[Crissi]

Then there's recognizing the fact that humans are flawed. You can condemn violence while realizing that violence in response to an insult can still occur because of said flaws. Its not ok, but it is one possible reaction.

[Merkava]

Yes, and here's the newsflash to you...

Whenever anyone (!) ever tells you about the mystical thing called "free speech", they are lying to you!

There is no absolute free speech, without consequence, without any reaction. If you think there is, you really need to wake up and join us in the real world... you know, where you get repercussions from telling someone his mum looks like the contents of the bag you just threw into the trash.

You don't know what freedom of speech is. Freedom of speech isn't insulting someones mother. And freedom of speech doesn't end when someone punches you.

[Slant]

Why are you instantly aggressive? Did I offend you because you disagree with me? Even if I was young enough to be foolish to get into an internet 'debate' with you, you clearly have multiple issues that have nothing to do with the thread topic, man.

Maybe when you calm down and mature, we can discuss what the pope meant and the idea of original sin. But right now, you're thinking irrationally here.

I do apologise if I came across as aggressive, I tend to write in a way that I find entertaining and slip into stupid phrases sometimes because I think they're amusing rather than what they actually could be received at. That's my mistake, don't let it take you down.