Rogues in CMs

[Warstar]

Anyone else happy that combat rogues are really strong in CMs this time around and that we aren't a carry any more like we were in MoP? Especially now with all the buffs we've gotten I feel like I do pretty crazy trash damage. Actually having a fun time on my rogue in CMs this go around compared to last expansion where after I got my rogue done I always would have to play my hunter or something instead to help.

[DeiVias]

Yeah it's great, people want us for CM's, people would push over their grandma to get us in RBG's.

Good times

[Deleted]

Yeah it's great, people want us for CM's, people would push over their grandma to get us in RBG's.

Good times

Is this really the case? Why do they want us in RBGS so much?

I got mists CM golds after 2-3 months of release and I never felt useless maybe a bit behind a few other classes but we got some realm firsts at the time and I obviously played my Rogue.

[Warstar]

Is this really the case? Why do they want us in RBGS so much?

I got mists CM golds after 2-3 months of release and I never felt useless maybe a bit behind a few other classes but we got some realm firsts at the time and I obviously played my Rogue.

Rogues were never even close to any of the carry classes like hunters/mages/locks/ele. There's a reason why almost every high ranking team at the end of the expansion were all brew master/disc/hunter/mage/ele or lock. I ran with a lot of groups who would sell CMs who had done them hundreds of times and everyone agreed that rogues were perhaps the hardest class to carry through a CM gold run. Hell on one of our runs one of the guys was getting CMs finished on his rogue and he joked that his biggest source of dps was tricksing the tank on CD. Rogues were decent on boss fights and could generally keep up with everyone but then (same as now) really the majority of a CM is dealing with trash in an effective manner and rogues just couldn't compete in the slightest plus being melee in CMs has always been a major draw back due to taking more damage than ranged and having a much harder time dealing with mechanics.

[Galbrei]

I'm super happy about how combat rogues are in CMs atm! We even managed to get some realm first titles! Although Grimrail Suplexer is the only one I care about keeping. Considering my avatar I don't think I need to say I'm a big fan of FF6.

[Deleted]

Rogues were never even close to any of the carry classes like hunters/mages/locks/ele. There's a reason why almost every high ranking team at the end of the expansion were all brew master/disc/hunter/mage/ele or lock. I ran with a lot of groups who would sell CMs who had done them hundreds of times and everyone agreed that rogues were perhaps the hardest class to carry through a CM gold run. Hell on one of our runs one of the guys was getting CMs finished on his rogue and he joked that his biggest source of dps was tricksing the tank on CD. Rogues were decent on boss fights and could generally keep up with everyone but then (same as now) really the majority of a CM is dealing with trash in an effective manner and rogues just couldn't compete in the slightest plus being melee in CMs has always been a major draw back due to taking more damage than ranged and having a much harder time dealing with mechanics.

uhm, the carry groups I knew could clear gold with 4 man easily and didn't require you to do anything at all. Surviva/Ele/Disc/Brew.
Also they were happy with a rogue in their group because you can't mess up thanks to Cheat Death.
Can't comment on our current state as I don't like time runs, but maybe I'll look into it then, if it's that fun now.

[MiseryTheRogue]

Did all gold recently as combat rogue. We got amazing AoE and decent single wich makes rogues useful in Cm's. The only problem is we don't bring any CC apart from single target stunlocks and AoE slow.

I was amazed how much we used my shroud to save pots for other fights. Grimrail for example we shroud instead of invis the very first pack giving us the opportunity to use 2 dps pots all time after.

[cashballer]

I am going to be doing CMs on my alt (Rogue) and was looking for any helpful class-specific information/tips. Seems like most people are using Combat (especially now, after the buffs). I imagine Haste is still king for Combat AoE damage? I seem to be doing solid trash DPS in heroics right now in my PvP gear.

[Kyarxadron]

I have simmed myself with challenge mode enabled on 8 targets, and it seems like multistrike>haste in this situation. I ve got all gear with haste/ms, and probably will go with 1 haste and 1 ms enchant on weapons.Not sure about trinkets, 1 is coin for sure and the second one probably scales of doom, or 630 ilvl use multistrike.

[Hyu]

Did all gold recently as combat rogue. We got amazing AoE and decent single wich makes rogues useful in Cm's. The only problem is we don't bring any CC apart from single target stunlocks and AoE slow.

I was amazed how much we used my shroud to save pots for other fights. Grimrail for example we shroud instead of invis the very first pack giving us the opportunity to use 2 dps pots all time after.

Start the isntance, wait 1,5 minutes, use invis poition, reset instance, start instance, you will have invisiblity potion active and dps potion off cd and can run straight to the first boss.

[Sturmgewehr86]

I am going to be doing CMs on my alt (Rogue) and was looking for any helpful class-specific information/tips. Seems like most people are using Combat (especially now, after the buffs). I imagine Haste is still king for Combat AoE damage? I seem to be doing solid trash DPS in heroics right now in my PvP gear.

I think the most important thing to know is that you can Switch your Spec in CM. I did 8/8 gold recently and i was swapping from combat to assassination for almost every boss.It is just sick synergy rolling on the trash with Venom Zest and poping all combat cd's and just in 6 -7 seconds respecing to assassination and going Vendetta/Shadow Reflection ham on his ass.Sub might be better for single target boss fights but i kinda have assassination gear so i was rocking Combat//Assassin(in terms of gearing for it was haste///multistrike for combat , crit//mastery for assassin.).

[MiseryTheRogue]

Start the isntance, wait 1,5 minutes, use invis poition, reset instance, start instance, you will have invisiblity potion active and dps potion off cd and can run straight to the first boss.

Or you can use shroud right away and not lose 1.5 minutes of your life :P

[Hyu]

Or you can use shroud right away and not lose 1.5 minutes of your life :P

Yes, because when you're doing gold challenge modes you're really concerned about 1.5 minutes of your life, I'm just saying that you dont need a rogue to not waste dps potions for the whole dungeon :P

Rogues are fine in CMs though, they're not the best, but they're not the worst, defenately better than in MoP.

(Third best melee after Arms Warrior and WW Monk)

[Deleted]

Rogues are fine in CMs though, they're not the best, but they're not the worst, defenately better than in MoP.

(Third best melee after Arms Warrior and WW Monk)

I feel like rogue is still underrated in CMs, and is very close to warrior, if not better. I got FoS with a warrior in my group ; of course we can't compete with them while bladestorm is up, but i felt like I had more consistent damage from pack to pack, and also slightly better single target dps, + the double buff and shroud we bring on top of that. Also I don't think WW Monk is still that great after all the nerfs. It was amazing for single target dps and touch of death, but not really shining in aoe.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I have

[shadowboy]

Also I don't think WW Monk is still that great after all the nerfs. It was amazing for single target dps and touch of death, but not really shining in aoe.

Don't discount the utility that comes from 10% AoE movement speed.

[Deleted]

After doing Auchindoun, Everbloom and Iron Docks Gold tonight on my Rogue, I can 100% see the point to this thread. I would say you'd have a tough time beating Combat Rogue DPS as any class. I was wrecking shit in there. The add group around Witherbark I was double the DPS of the next, at 130k deeps. With WW Monk and Hunter as the other DPS.

So Hyu, I don't agree with WW Monk being better than Combat Rogue in terms of pure damage ever since our buff.

Smokebomb Glyphed, 8 Second KS, Shroud, insane deeps.

[Kyarxadron]

Does anyone have rogue POV vods of any challenges? I have tried to find some, but got nothing.

[Warstar]

Combat does really really really good dps. In yolo CMs combat will be a lot less effective where you primarily go pack to pack and use CC to make it easier blade flurry doesn't get the full glory that it deserves. Even on a CM gold run like Shadowmoon where there really aren't any big packs combat still will be the top dps most of the time on those pulls but it's lead won't be as noticeable in runs where you can get some monster pulls in. Also aside from the fact that combat pulls a lot of dps one of the reasons that makes combat soar ahead of other rogues specs is the fact that we can essentially reset our CDs from almost pull to pull with MfD evic spam giving us more CD usage than any other spec in the game which allows us to continue doing high dps all around although swapping to a spec like sub for boss fights would be even better combat can still hold it's own on ST as well as aoe.

In response to shadowboy's comment about WW 10% movement I'll raise you that the use of shroud and letting people essential pot on CD the entire time vastly outweighs any sort of dps increase 10% could give. It's huge. Double pot on every boss. Potting during trash to blow shit up. I wouldn't be surprised if over the course of a run that the use of shroud brings more dps than a heroism class does. Grim rail would be a good example where you need to invis pot at the very start where with 5 people using pots that's making up for (at most and I know it's an exaggeration) 50 potential dps/mana pots. Hell same with UBRS where people usually use 2 invis pots shroud would let people use so many more pots through out that CM run.

Btw tip for shroud usage is to CC with blind/sap targets while you're running with shroud up so that people won't accidentally aggro them. You can essentially turn shroud into a lesser invisibility and let people run through mobs that are CCed.

Honestly with everything that rogue's bring to CM runs they're amazing right now. Really the only thing that we lack is an aoe stun which is pretty big. Aoe stuns are really the only reason I can think of to bring another class over a rogue atm.

[Hyu]

After doing Auchindoun, Everbloom and Iron Docks Gold tonight on my Rogue, I can 100% see the point to this thread. I would say you'd have a tough time beating Combat Rogue DPS as any class. I was wrecking shit in there. The add group around Witherbark I was double the DPS of the next, at 130k deeps. With WW Monk and Hunter as the other DPS.

So Hyu, I don't agree with WW Monk being better than Combat Rogue in terms of pure damage ever since our buff.

Smokebomb Glyphed, 8 Second KS, Shroud, insane deeps.

Just because you did more damage than someone in a CM, doesnt mean rogues do more damage than other classes, people should just stack hunters, because gingi does 400k dps during some pulls when he's progressing world best times...

Rogues are good, but theyre not the best melee, that's a fact, smokebomb is only really beneficial if you don't have a DK tank, 8 second kidneyshot is usefull for like 1 fight (1st boss in SMBG), shroud barely matters, I can see it beeing used to skip 1 room in UBRS if you're unlucky with RNG.

They're more than good enough for Gold times, but if you wan't to go for server/world times, hunter/mage/warlock/ele shaman/warrior is the way to go.

- - - Updated - - -

Combat does really really really good dps. In yolo CMs combat will be a lot less effective where you primarily go pack to pack and use CC to make it easier blade flurry doesn't get the full glory that it deserves. Even on a CM gold run like Shadowmoon where there really aren't any big packs combat still will be the top dps most of the time on those pulls but it's lead won't be as noticeable in runs where you can get some monster pulls in. Also aside from the fact that combat pulls a lot of dps one of the reasons that makes combat soar ahead of other rogues specs is the fact that we can essentially reset our CDs from almost pull to pull with MfD evic spam giving us more CD usage than any other spec in the game which allows us to continue doing high dps all around although swapping to a spec like sub for boss fights would be even better combat can still hold it's own on ST as well as aoe.

In response to shadowboy's comment about WW 10% movement I'll raise you that the use of shroud and letting people essential pot on CD the entire time vastly outweighs any sort of dps increase 10% could give. It's huge. Double pot on every boss. Potting during trash to blow shit up. I wouldn't be surprised if over the course of a run that the use of shroud brings more dps than a heroism class does. Grim rail would be a good example where you need to invis pot at the very start where with 5 people using pots that's making up for (at most and I know it's an exaggeration) 50 potential dps/mana pots. Hell same with UBRS where people usually use 2 invis pots shroud would let people use so many more pots through out that CM run.

Btw tip for shroud usage is to CC with blind/sap targets while you're running with shroud up so that people won't accidentally aggro them. You can essentially turn shroud into a lesser invisibility and let people run through mobs that are CCed.

Honestly with everything that rogue's bring to CM runs they're amazing right now. Really the only thing that we lack is an aoe stun which is pretty big. Aoe stuns are really the only reason I can think of to bring another class over a rogue atm.

Unlike in MoP, CMs are balanced around Invisibility Potions, so Shroud really isnt that big of a deal, you mention Grimrail, but you can just:

Start the isntance, wait 1,5 minutes, use invis poition, reset instance, start instance, you will have invisiblity potion active and dps potion off cd and can run straight to the first boss.

There are a few instances where invisibility potion could be usefull if you don't have a Warlock/Hunter in the group, but really, it's hardly that usefull.

[zyZ]

rogue #1 dps class for CM + cheat death makes it pretty godly, only one that was tough as rogue is skyreach