Is hunter's kitting toolkit too powerful?

[ro9ue]

The thing about PVP in WoW is that it's totally true it's rock paper scissors. I learned this from having a bunch of alts.

Just for an example (classes might not be accurate): I'll get raped by a hunter on my rogue. Develop a strong hatred for hunters. So I'll log my mage and destroy all hunters. But by that time I've encountered a ton of warriors that beat my mage, so I now hate warriors. I will log my warlock to destroy all warriors. But then I get beat up by a bunch of druids.

etc, etc, etc

[Deleted]

Tbh the kiting isnt a problem - a hunter should be able to kite you. However the fact that they can reset the fight pretty much endlessly after the kiting is a problem. You catch up to them? Deterence into ice trap, get some distance keep going, you catch up again - disengage and continue the show. You catch up to them again, second deterence, you catch up to them again? - Insert ability-.

I dont mind a good hunter being able to kite me, but once I am near a hunter the fight should be on the melee's side, and perhaps one reset is okay, but having a total of three hundred and fourty six of them is just insane.

[Flaks]

That means nothing. Try being a hunter versus a Boomkin. #ThatsHowBalanceWorks

As a hunter I can tell you that there's nothing in this game that counters anything as hard as hunters counter warriors.

[Deleted]

As feral against hunter i do like build your dots on him and run to your friends
Yes decent good hunter can make your life miserable but they arent that much present.I have meet much more so bad hunters and the fact that my main is hunter help me alot coz i know the basic CD on all his skills and what most likely he will use .Trying to kill some hunter makes me hapy coz the game is with using my (insert class) skills in right time to counter his own things.Its works perfect on atleast 90% of my victims
Freezing arrow its a problem yes but tell me a one melee class who dint have infinite slow.Only low CD on traps is abit OP but bliz working in that direction

[Deleted]

Stop spewing bullshit without facts.
http://www.arenamate.net/representat...s.html#tab_3v3

Depens on what you understand as "high rated". Following the link you posted you get the graph for 2200+ which is not really that high nowadays. Go to the main page and look at the high ratings:

2500+
Mage: 107
Hunter: 98
Factor: 1.09

2600+
Mage: 64
Hunter: 46
Factor: 1.39

2700+
Mage: 37
Hunter: 19
Factor: 1.95

The higher the rating, the more dominant mages become over hunters. And at the really high ratings it is indeed about 2 times as much mages as hunters.

[Madus]

Depens on what you understand as "high rated". Following the link you posted you get the graph for 2200+ which is not really that high nowadays. Go to the main page and look at the high ratings:
The higher the rating, the more dominant mages become over hunters. And at the really high ratings it is indeed about 2 times as much mages as hunters.

Lmao, when you idiots learn that blizzard dont balance things around top 0.1%. 2200+ is used because when you set lower rat then armory return fixed amount of ppl (cca 5000 ppl), so you cannot get correct data for 3v3 representation.
Hunter representation IS over the top compared to other dps, thats why you getting nerfed. Top 100 doesnt change shit on it. They are not gonna make a game shithole for a tousands of ppl under 2400, just because you dont have same representation as mages on 2600+.

[Deleted]

Lmao, when you idiots learn that blizzard dont balance things around top 0.1%. 2200+ is used because when you set lower rat then armory return fixed amount of ppl (cca 5000 ppl), so you cannot get correct data for 3v3 representation.
Hunter representation IS over the top compared to other dps, thats why you getting nerfed. Top 100 doesnt change shit on it. They are not gonna make a game shithole for a tousands of ppl under 2400, just because you dont have same representation as mages on 2600+.

You are right. Doesn't change the fact that the statement (twice as much mages as hunters) still holds true depending on your definition of "high rating".

Aside from that, Hunter representation is currently about right at 2200. They have 9.6% representation, when 9.09% would be the "ideal" representation. So they are just a tiny bit above that. However, if you also consider that Hunters are a very frequent class in general, their representation is actually quite balanced. Blizzard has stated several times that they don't look at absolute representation numbers but take them in relation to the general amount of players of the class. Monks for example are rare in general, so their representation (5.1%) does not really mean that they are bad. Actually Mistweaver Monks are at least the 3rd best healer currently.

Unfortunately arenamate doesn't have the total representation. Worldofwargraphs has them for example (at least a good approximation) They show a rep of Mistwaver Monk of 1.3% for example and Survival Hunter of 3.9%. If you take their representation in 3's in relation to that you get a factor of 2.05 for Hunters but 3.53 for Mistweaver Monks, which means that, in relation to their general representation Mistweaver is more powerful than Survival.

You have to take all of that with a grain of salt though because no one knows for sure how Blizzard does their balance thing. Most of the outcries on forums are also based on 1v1 or 2v2...

Also, the high number of Mistweavers can easily have to do with the fact that Windwalker is so bad currently and all those WWs are just playing the only viable spec for their class in PvP.

What I want to say is just that the whole representation thing is A LOT more complicated than just looking at the percentages on a given rating.

[Deleted]

Depens on what you understand as "high rated". Following the link you posted you get the graph for 2200+ which is not really that high nowadays. Go to the main page and look at the high ratings:

2500+
Mage: 107
Hunter: 98
Factor: 1.09

2600+
Mage: 64
Hunter: 46
Factor: 1.39

2700+
Mage: 37
Hunter: 19
Factor: 1.95

The higher the rating, the more dominant mages become over hunters. And at the really high ratings it is indeed about 2 times as much mages as hunters.

You should also consider that hunters are the most played class in game, both EU and US, mage is what, 5th 6th?

[mrmsix6]

It's fine because while kiting hunters can't do full dama...wait...

It's fine because while kiting hunters can't CC...wait...

It's fine because once you catch them they have no immun...wait...

It's fine because once you catch them they have no freedom/Sac...wait...

[ellieg]

Hunter kiting was fine imo when they had a deadzone. Obviously deadzone was annoying and im fine with them removing it. However im not fine with them maintaining and even getting more kiting abilities after the deadzone was removed. However, hunters are pretty squishy. I would be ok with them getting a little more passive damage reduction if they nerfed some of their kiting.

[Darksoldierr]

Try to catch a Hunter as an Enhance shaman! That is what i call fun!

[Deleted]

When the outlying classes with more mobility than everyone else can't even catch them consistently, I'm surprised the question even has to be asked.

[dwightyo39]

Top rated rogue vs hunter.

http://www.skill-capped.com/watch/97...nter-vs-rogue/

I gotta hand it to the rogue. I would have smashed my monitor well before the duel ended.

[Friendlyimmolation]

As a hunter I can tell you that there's nothing in this game that counters anything as hard as hunters counter warriors.

So mabye I'm not as bad as I thought when a hunter wrecks me 1v1.

[Deleted]

So mabye I'm not as bad as I thought when a hunter wrecks me 1v1.

Hunters are good duelists, you will probly never win a duel ever vs a decent hunter, but yet again the lil pvp that this game offers isnt about 1v1.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Hunters are good duelists, you will probly never win a duel ever vs a decent hunter, but yet again the lil pvp that this game offers isnt about 1v1.

Which is annoying, most of my pvp now is killing gankers, and most of them seems to be hunters.

[Deleted]

So mabye I'm not as bad as I thought when a hunter wrecks me 1v1.

My gladiator warrior died repeatedly to an equivalently geared (i.e. full honour) BM hunter who did not even try to kite me (at most, he disengaged a bit). He did the same to my ret paladin. We were both probably really bad at PVP but I was surprised his combined damage and survivability exceeded mine even when he kept to melee range. So it's not like they are trading off throughput for mobility/kiting tools.

[Deleted]

The hunters defense is the space it creates for itself.

They have the right amount of it in the current meta. And dont talk 1v1's. In competetive environments, you have enough back up from other classes to allow you to reach the target.

[Delaios]

Hunters just have so many tools to keep you away as well as to keep their own distance.
-Aspect of the Cheetah - 30% movement speed ontop of 110% movement speed
-Disengage posthaste + root - 8 sec sprint/root ontop of a gap maker is fucking stupid. I was against this back in MoP and I'm sad to see they still haven't fixed this shit.
-Frozen Arrow - lvl 100 talent that freaking slows you for 4 seconds on every auto attack. Basically, after you clear concussive shot and frozen arrow by whatever means, you have a 2-3 sec window to catch up to the hunter. JK ice trap
-Explosive Trap - not too big of a deal, still obnoxious though. Whenever you finally do get to the hunter he can just knock you away.

Cheetah breaks on the slightest hit and causes a daze or a cooldown (glyphed) when it breaks.
Can't have the sprint and root together, since they are separate talents on the same tier.
Frozen Arrow is pretty broken in it's current state. It's an auto-applied, off the global cooldown Concussive Shot every 3 seconds.
Explosive traps (and traps in general) are fairly significant with the extremely low cooldown on them for Survival hunters. 12 seconds for each trap instead of 30 like other hunter specs is just insane. 6.1 will remove the 6 second reduction from Trap Mastery and reduces Enhanced Traps to 33% instead of 50% cooldown reduction.

[morislayer]

Hunter kiting was fine imo when they had a deadzone. Obviously deadzone was annoying and im fine with them removing it. However im not fine with them maintaining and even getting more kiting abilities after the deadzone was removed. However, hunters are pretty squishy. I would be ok with them getting a little more passive damage reduction if they nerfed some of their kiting.

When hunters had a deadzone they had:

-Wingclip
-Freezing or Frost Trap (No Trap Launcher and Arm Time)
-Concussive shot at Range
-Deterrance increased parry & dodge
-Disengage LMAO reduced melee threat.......
-Snake Trap reduced speed by 30% but I believe had no AoE protection
-Scatter if Specced
-Counter Attack if specced.

Deadzone dancing was basically wingclip jumping to concussive to trapping to actually get range (all while changing to scorpid sting). The deadzone had to go. Hunter representation was the worst of any class, though tops in BGs ironically.

Though the idea of frozen ammo is great, its over the top. They should have just removed Freeze / Frost shared CD. Disengage is enough. Explosive trap is over the top imo. 1st tier talents should stay as it can give flavor. I would seriously consider removing concussive shot in its incarnation and put it as a talent. Unless PVE hunter community has a real argument they need concussive. Concussive would become the old marksman talents with 100% stun for 3 secs, 3 second daze, remove Binding. AoE stuns I believe should be removed from game, well at least PVP.