1800+ RBGs, need help on comp!

[Auberdeen]

Just turned the corner to 1800 and have been running the same comp religiously and have been having great luck. All but 3 of my losses have come from terrible PuG's that I knew were a bad idea upon joining, just based on what the comp was.

Most of my issues have come at the hands of either DPS not peeling for the healers, the healers just standing there and getting trained, or CC not being called out on the other 2 healers while we are on a healer.

Hopping to get some insight on what I can lose or gain from swapping out any of the classes/specs that you all suggest on my push to 2k, or issues I may run into.

Heals: Hpal or MW, RDruid, Disc -- DPS; Double FDK, double Rogue, Boomie, Mage, Hunter.

Rationale 2 FDks: (ignoring some of the more obvious ones)
1. I'm one of them and do all the TC'ing, when/if I die want another their with me.
2. 2 gorefiends(+mage ring) for Silvershard Mines.
3. Insane pressure during teamfight and great for kill squad
4. 1 with team fight, 1 with Rogue to grip-cap EoTS
5. 1 go Blood and: run carts Deepwind Gorge/hold down BS in AB
6. 2 grips for Cart carrier in Deepwind when they are at their base, gripping back down the hill into the corner, and again further away resulting in inability to ever cap(so long as we don't die )

Rationale 2 Rogues:
1. 1 with team fight for smoke bomb, other stealth capping AB/EOTS/Deepwind
2. 1 FC and other on D or with teamfight WSG/Twins
3. last minute track switches Silvershard
4. FAST orb kills in temple

Boomy with this comp for:
1. sneaky peel-of kill squad with one of the rogues during team fights
2. insane AoE, CC
3. better constant dots than Aff and Spriest(right?)
4. beam w/ the 2 DK grips

Hunter:
1. super pro base guard
2. knock off at LM
3. Stealth with Rogue(s) and Boomy when in dire straights

Frost Mage:
1. 2nd to Hunter in base sitting imo
2. Rings with 2 DK grips
3. Send with a Rogue to ensure Mines(AB)
4. Poly coordination with clone to ensure Healer CC while on kill target

Have heard from many not to bother with a Lock just because Boomy brings more utility and has better AoE dmg, is this true? Secondly, which comps do Locks have a good synergy with in RBGs?

Drop the mage for another Boomy?

As for the healers, RSham is the only one I haven't brought along just because they always seem to get trained so hard. Amazing in arena don't get me wrong... in my experience anyway.

Thanks

[Deleted]

The most important fact that you have to know is that players>comp.

You're talking about not taking locks and rshams etc because low expd people of that class
might be useless and fail. But decent players will turn it into the strongest toons in the rbg.

A good rsham that knows he is not a raidboss and knows how to position will make it insanely hard
to score kills against because of their very high healing output and large heals on low targets.
That combined with double aoe tremors/freedoms etc and some of the strongest cooldowns in the game
make a good rsham a god to have on your team. Ofc lets not be obnoxious, if the other 2 healers are dog
then he will flop.

A warlock might not do the same numbers as boomies do but that is completely besides the point and
only meter-kids will pay attention to that. Boomers can spread dots alot easier making them able to almost dot the entire
enemy team including pets, on top of that starfall will aoe everything aswell. That gives you big numbers, not wins in a teamfight.
Warlocks still have one of the highest aoe pressures combined with UA dispel protection and a shitload of cc.
They might not be able to dot 9players and 4 pets and hence top meters but they cannot be missed in any
real rotting comp because they also make it a pain in the ass for enemy healers to dispel.

And last but not least you also mention mage, same problem here, they are low on meters so people think they are dog.
But yet they dominate the ladder for a reason (3s ofc), they bring an immense amount of control and very high single target burst,
that will get you kills easy.

So ye that was just an explanation why its total bs not to take a mage/lock/rsham,
what you need to focus on is that comp does not matter, I would rather take 3x 2.4exp rshams
then 1750exp mw-hpal-rdrui. ITS ALL ABOUT THE PLAYER.

You can only start debating comps when you already have a full group of high exp players to pick from.

[Auberdeen]

The most important fact that you have to know is that players>comp.

You're talking about not taking locks and rshams etc because low expd people of that class
might be useless and fail. But decent players will turn it into the strongest toons in the rbg.

A good rsham that knows he is not a raidboss and knows how to position will make it insanely hard
to score kills against because of their very high healing output and large heals on low targets.
That combined with double aoe tremors/freedoms etc and some of the strongest cooldowns in the game
make a good rsham a god to have on your team. Ofc lets not be obnoxious, if the other 2 healers are dog
then he will flop.

A warlock might not do the same numbers as boomies do but that is completely besides the point and
only meter-kids will pay attention to that. Boomers can spread dots alot easier making them able to almost dot the entire
enemy team including pets, on top of that starfall will aoe everything aswell. That gives you big numbers, not wins in a teamfight.
Warlocks still have one of the highest aoe pressures combined with UA dispel protection and a shitload of cc.
They might not be able to dot 9players and 4 pets and hence top meters but they cannot be missed in any
real rotting comp because they also make it a pain in the ass for enemy healers to dispel.

And last but not least you also mention mage, same problem here, they are low on meters so people think they are dog.
But yet they dominate the ladder for a reason (3s ofc), they bring an immense amount of control and very high single target burst,
that will get you kills easy.

So ye that was just an explanation why its total bs not to take a mage/lock/rsham,
what you need to focus on is that comp does not matter, I would rather take 3x 2.4exp rshams
then 1750exp mw-hpal-rdrui. ITS ALL ABOUT THE PLAYER.

You can only start debating comps when you already have a full group of high exp players to pick from.

could not agree more that it is all about the player.

thanks for the insight on locks, had no idea Unstable Affliction worked that way.

As for the boomys and their dmg, I wasn't so much noting the meters as I was constant AoE dmg to the enemy team, thus pressuring their healers and allowing for them to make mistakes.

[Yvaelle]

Shadowpriest and Affliction damage is probably the highest effective rot in an RBG environment - DKs and Laserchickens spread AoE DoTs and so appear to do a lot of damage (and they do a lot of effective damage) but a lot of DK/Chicken damage is ineffective: dots on pets or players you aren't actually killing that aren't actually taxing the healers (ie, dots on a spriest or dk or feral - where passive heals are going to cover it). By contrast, Spriest and Affliction DoTs are targeted - so it's always on kill targets, none of their damage goes to stampede pets or treants or people who aren't swaps.

So if you look at a meter and see a Spriest/Affliction just below a chicken or DK, recognize that in terms of effective damage they are probably beating the chicken/DK significantly. Spriests also have the advantage of spamming offensive dispels / mass dispels - which can have a pretty significant effect over the course of a team fight (and dispel spam as prelude to a target call makes it far more likely to die), while Affliction is the opposite - UA is the superlative dispel deterrent. Dks are very strong right now, Chickens are overrated IMO (unless they are good at knock-offs), but a Shadow+Affliction is still the core of any serious pressure comp.

[Tyrean]

I play both lock and boomkin in RBG around the rating you are at and I can say that they both have their place. People really seem to have a debby downer on locks though, they are very versatile. Your main job as a lock is to keep the healers, kill targets and possible swaps covered with UA to protect other people's dots and punish dispels on the other team. Then you spend the rest of your time fearing people, either people on your healers or healers. Locks can also knock targets off LM and Eye mid, they are not the greatest targets to kill and on temple I go demonbolt and I can solo return orbs and be able to tell my team exactly when it will go so we can get orbs better.

Now the boomkin does its own thing that is good and different. Cyclone is a very effective CC because you can CC people right in the middle of the fray. It also works very well against those pesky DKs and warriors who are sitting on your healers. It has been said that they look good on meters but it is not all effective damage but a good boomkin knows how to abuse their pvp set bonus to keep starfall running all the time but still be able to surge into kill targets which are very big hits. They also have knockbacks and can pinch flag run when the shit hits the fan. Boomkins also can do a lot of passive healing with the right talents in the big team fights.

Honestly though, your comp you have has two glaring problems. Double rogue and double DK. Double DK I think you can make a case for just from raw damage and killing power, but double gorefiends is not a thing in reality. You can't choose who gorefiends grabs so if you try to double grip into ring you will end up wasting the second grip for the most part. Also, if your DK goes down in a fight were you need flag spins, that si why you have teammates. Your boomkin will have starfall up the whole time which will keep caps at bay until you get back and depending on who is in the mid fight there are other people that can spin effectively.

Double rogue though... that is just a damage negative. They will DR each other a ton, they won't be able to do the same kind of damage other classes can do and you don't need two rogues to do all the sneaky stuff that rogues do in RBGs. If you wanted an effective stealth team to do stuff then you should drop one rogue and pick up another boomy or feral. Rogue/druid stealth teams are very good at getting hunter guarded flags and turning carts against solo defenders etc.

I really think you need a warlock, and you might be better off trading out one of your DKs for a warrior. Warriors spin flags very well, do very good damage and are good cart runners in gorge because of leap.

As others have said though, I would take your comp every single time if they were good players. Good players with not the greatest class makeup will always trump mediocre players with better comps in RBGs mainly because there is so much going on and so many things that you have to coordinate as a team that good team players and players that know what they are doing are always better.

[rda]

I'd switch one FDK to an affli warlock.

Rshams do get trained a lot, yes, it's a challenge for the rest of the team to keep them up (a rogue tasked with this does wonders in 10v10, but yes, if you just tell the shaman to survive and leave it up to other healers to keep the shaman alive, the shaman will drop fast). That said, if the shaman can actually heal, his healing will be very good, shaman's mastery is pure gold for PVP.

[Tyrean]

About the rsham, after playing an entire night with one I really don't see the draw. They get trained non stop, each RBG we played the rsham was top damage taken by a super huge margin. The times I was able to pay attention to him, his positioning was not terrible he was just getting trained all day. His healing was not over the top, but almost all of his healing done was to himself. He brings spirit link to the group, maybe a hex and what else?

About the only time the rsham was okay was when we picked up an hpal halfway through the night and the rsham could get bops.

Just not sure why you would bring an rsham over a disc, MW, hpal or rdruid.

[Deleted]

Double rogue though... that is just a damage negative. They will DR each other a ton, they won't be able to do the same kind of damage other classes can do and you don't need two rogues to do all the sneaky stuff that rogues do in RBGs. If you wanted an effective stealth team to do stuff then you should drop one rogue and pick up another boomy or feral. Rogue/druid stealth teams are very good at getting hunter guarded flags and turning carts against solo defenders etc.

Ive played double rogue multiple times this ssn up to 2.2mmr, never ever disappointed.
A good rogue is a fcking god in rbg.
And since they are now the best fc's double rogue works great.
Ive also seen bailiamos play 2.7rbgs with double rogue so.

- - - Updated - - -

About the rsham, after playing an entire night with one I really don't see the draw. They get trained non stop, each RBG we played the rsham was top damage taken by a super huge margin. The times I was able to pay attention to him, his positioning was not terrible he was just getting trained all day. His healing was not over the top, but almost all of his healing done was to himself. He brings spirit link to the group, maybe a hex and what else?

About the only time the rsham was okay was when we picked up an hpal halfway through the night and the rsham could get bops.

Just not sure why you would bring an rsham over a disc, MW, hpal or rdruid.

Huge misconception.
Rshams are very very powerfull healers. When someone is low 1 unleash heal will top someone off instantly.
(where a hpal would have to spam 5 flash heals) Their heals are rlly the strongest ingame.

But to get them off the shaman has to know how to play and position, an average sham will just end up
being a target dummy all game and get nothing done.
Rsham positioning in rbg is not the classic 'stand a bit in the back', when you have 2 melees swapping on you,
you literally just drop a freedom and run back to china, run where the enemy dps just cannot follow.
Ive done it myself so many times with great affect and saw other high expd rshams do the same in my groups,
when they are on you in wsg-tp you literally run back to your base-gy making it completely absurd for enemy dps to follow you.
I dont get trained at all because I just peace it every time they look at me, the result will always be the same :
They try 3-4 times and thn give up for the rest of the bg.

Ofcourse in those situations its the rest of the team their responsability to punish overextended dps if they get cocky.

Besides that they obv also offer the group
2x tremor, 2x aoe freedom!, largest single target spike healing in the entire match, largest aoe healing burst cooldowns, spirit link

[Romeo83x]

Relying on comp (instead of skill and teamwork) to get the ratings will ultimately lead you to a point where you will be unable to play without losing rating if your comp doesn't come together.

Relying on skill and teamwork (instead of comp) to get the ratings will lead you to having more fun, getting more games, being much more flexible etc.

Bring the player, not the class.

[Deleted]

Oh my it's so cute that you still think it's player > class. GL getting any meaningful rating with a WW monk or warrior. It's ALL about fotm.

[Deleted]

Ran with this comp the other day and it was too funny.

2 affi locks
2 boomkins
2 unholy dk's
1 shadow priest
1 MW monk
1 Rdruid
1 Dpriest.

Just watch the enemies health bars go down like its a loading screen bar.

[Deleted]

Oh my it's so cute that you still think it's player > class. GL getting any meaningful rating with a WW monk or warrior. It's ALL about fotm.

Spoken like a true 1550.
It seems you didnt get the note on how strong war is atm.

WW is just on the penalty bench for globalling people last season.
Nothing wrong there ^^

[Romeo83x]

Oh my it's so cute that you still think it's player > class. GL getting any meaningful rating with a WW monk or warrior. It's ALL about fotm.

The 50 warriors in the top 500 of EU RBG rankings must've missed the memo.

Quick! Better tell the #4 ranked warrior that his class sucks and isn't "fotm" before he takes #1 spot !

[Illiterate]

Spoken like a true 1550.
It seems you didnt get the note on how strong war is atm.

WW is just on the penalty bench for globalling people last season.
Nothing wrong there ^^

Every decent player has gone fotm by now. Any players still playing a shitty class are just bad.

[Flaks]

The 50 warriors in the top 500 of EU RBG rankings must've missed the memo.

Quick! Better tell the #4 ranked warrior that his class sucks and isn't "fotm" before he takes #1 spot !

Warriors have 3 specs all of which fill niches and work together exceptionally well. Despite losing a lot of what they had in MoP (and becoming vanilla shitty solo), the class is as strong as ever with a healer behind them and their cleave is absurd. They also seem to be the defacto flag carriers as far as I've seen.

Ursol's Vortex/Gorefiend's Grasp + Starfall + reckstorm followed by a few executes. Shit's gonna die.

The class itself isn't going to benefit greatly by having a great player behind the keyboard. What makes it great is great partners. Both the skill cap and the skill floor are absurdly low on it.