Blue and the players discussing that Difficulty above LFR is not content.

[Deleted]

Of course you do. But it IS the same content. Mechanics != content. It's not like there are new bosses or the bosses are in radically different settings. They just do some different things.

Your argument and Bashiok's both boil down to "well you can do organized raiding" which ignores both the fact that the content is basically the same and that some people can't or do not want to dedicate 2 or 3 nights of a week to raiding.

These are such incredibly asinine statements that you should feel honored that anyone on this forum is even dignifying their stupidity with an answer.

The word "content" is hollow when used as you do. What in the everloving hell do you mean with content if not radically changing the gameplay? Do you think that somehow the only content worth talking about is new polygons? Do you just want to look at pretty lights and shapes like some sort of infant? If so, video games of any sort, not just raiding, are the entirely wrong source of entertainment for you.
It's just a fact that if you don't care about gameplay, you're ill-served with actual games.

On the other hand, you completely flip-flop on your stance with the "people have other things to do" statement. Oh, so it's actually content, it's just content that's only accessible to people who can dedicate time to the game.
Well, then it actually is content, but it's content which requires dedication that you are unwilling or unable to give to the game. Pray tell, how is Blizzard supposed to give access to this content for you without making it significantly worse for the people who aren't socially inhibited, incapable of understanding how to execute something as simple as their class mechanics, or on such a strict time schedule that playing video games is a questionable choice at all?

What does it mean that content is "basically" the same? What is content at its most basic level? Do you give any thought at all to your words before you write them down?


That said, there is a content drought in Warlords of Draenor, but that doesn't excuse these insanely idiotic ideas of actual entertaining gameplay being secondary to fucking more sightseeing to do.
The entitlement to access hardcore gaming without understanding that the entertainment lies entirely in its difficulty is what has ruined the modern video game industry as a whole.

[Liandryl]

Anytime someone is talking about lack of content, it is because the player is only doing lfr and never experienced a real raiding experience. Also, they most likely don't bother doing RBG or Rated Arena.
I personally think WOD is awesome and doesn't lack content, but it is because I don't choose what is content or what is not like most casual players are doing.
It is not because you are not doing it that it is not content. You choose to play only a fraction of the game and then qq about the game not having enough content...
It's only selfish because you believe the expansion does not have content ''for you''.
I don't know how many post there has been these 2 last months about such, it is simply mind blowing.

Start looking and you will see the absurd amount of content there is and if you are bored with waiting for weekly stuff, start an alt already and look for last expansion's content, because it could be nice like farming mounts, pet, etc...

After writing this, I looked into the mentionned post and god.... there is 1 answer that blew my mind.

A guy said:
Be very, very concise, precise, and literal with your answer to this.

Do you participate in PvE Raid Content in WoW to have the chance to observe how the scenery and bosses look?

Sadly... SOME PLAYER SEEMED TO SAY YES.
How can you srsly pay 15$ a month to see stuff that could be seen on youtube god...
It blew my mind that they were not even telling him that he was wrong but looking for more shitty answer that only meant blablabla real raid are not content and we don't want gear even if it's in the middle of all the game blablabla...

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

Nobody should take Bashiok seriously anymore.

[Snuzzfizzle]

LFR bosses may look like heroic/mythic mode bosses but they're completely different to one another.
Saying it is the same content is absurd.

Experiencing LFR is pretty much the same as watching someone else do a let's play of a game while running heroics/mythic mode is like actually playing the game.
At least that's my opinion.

[Otimus]

If you are bored with the content you're able to access, or care to access, you should stop paying for the game until there's more content you feel is worth paying for to do.

I think it's understandable if people don't like PVP, and feel like they've gone as far as they want on easy mode, to not want to bother with more. But nothing is going to ever change if you, and others of the same opinion as you, keep paying for it when you're not enjoying yourself.

I've pugged through normal, and I have zero interest in PVP anymore. The thought of doing any more above that does not seem fun to me. I don't want to bother with it. Dungeons lack incentive to do them anymore. I'm mostly bored with garrisons and followers now, too.

What am I going to do, then? When my sub runs out in march, I'm not resubbing unless there's more stuff I find fun to do to keep me subbed. Really, please, if you're not having fun, don't WAIT for fun to magically appear. Don't "make" your own "fun" by forcing yourself to do other stuff. UNSUB. Then resub when there's stuff you're actually interested in.

It's the only way to actually send a message.

[clevin]

But, the bosses are a significantly different play experience between difficulty levels. Questing, even in new areas, is still the same mind numbing experience. Kill this/gather that. It's the exact same thing, just with a different skin. Play style does not change at all. Daily quests.....even worse.

Personally, I prefer new experiences. Multiple raid difficulties that takes weeks/months to progress through give me MUCH more than new quest areas that I can burn through in a few hours.

I guess some people just enjoy running around 2-shotting mobs (apparently that is their only form of content) than actually having to pay attention..../shrug

I think we're splitting hairs here. Yes, it's a different experience/mechanics, but it's not entirely new content in the sense that the zone is different or there are different bosses.

Imagine a zone in the world, say, Nagrand. Let's say it was silly easy but you could, as you entered the zone, set things to be harder by a few steps and some of the mobs changes the attacks they used. Is that really a new zone? Or is it the same zone with some tweaks? I'd say the latter - it's not a different zone e.g. Spires.

[Gorsameth]

Your argument and Bashiok's both boil down to "well you can do organized raiding" which ignores both the fact that the content is basically the same and that some people can't or do not want to dedicate 2 or 3 nights of a week to raiding. Your argument is further weakened by the fact that heroic IS pretty much just normal but slightly harder. Even further, note that Bashiok didn't give a list of other things you can do in WoD... it was "well, you can do the harder levels of Highmaul..." which is really an admission that there's not a lot of variety in new content.

Remind me again how old WoW is?
And in those years and all those expansions, when has Raiding / PvP ever not been the only 2 real endgame activities in WoW?

If your not willing to commit to raiding and are not satisfied with the content outside of raids then maybe this isnt the game you should be playing.
Why do people go "This game doesnt offer what I want, you have to give me what I want" instead of "This game doesnt offer what I want, I will go somewhere else"?

Oh right because they dont want to go somewhere else and would rather stay, keep paying and complain pointlessly about it on forums.

WoW is what it is. Its perfectly fine to not like it but do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop playing it and go somewhere else.

[borisshayo]

The argument that lfr and actual raiding is "the same content" because the scenery and bosses look the same and that it doesn't matter that higher difficulties actually force you to play the game...fucking AIDS

- - - Updated - - -

oh my fucking god scenery, the way bosses look, and story aren't fucking important to anyone who doesnt have brain damage. nobody in their right mind cares about that shit. mythic IS new content because this is a videogame and videogames are about playing the fucking game

[clevin]

If you are bored with the content you're able to access, or care to access, you should stop paying for the game until there's more content you feel is worth paying for to do.

I did.

I've raided in the past, don't want to now and what people are ignoring here in the debate about whether difficulty = content is that Bashiok didn't come up with a variety of things to do when confronted with the lack of content... all he could come up with is "well, raid on a harder level", i.e. there's just raiding to do.

Contrast this with other expansions where you could rep up and get meaningful starter gear, run heroics even if just for rep or currency, etc. Now, for PVE, you really have only... do one semi-interesting, short raid.

[iceberg265]

Personally I am of the camp that while additional difficulties are a good thing and a requirement, it does not count as different content.

That being said, that OP is ridiculous. In the OP he lists all the various time consuming things he has already done, and then several posts later he says "I don't have time to raid, I work".

lol

[Snuzzfizzle]

The argument that lfr and actual raiding is "the same content" because the scenery and bosses look the same and that it doesn't matter that higher difficulties actually force you to play the game...fucking AIDS

- - - Updated - - -

oh my fucking god scenery, the way bosses look, and story aren't fucking important to anyone who doesnt have brain damage. nobody in their right mind cares about that shit. mythic IS new content because this is a videogame and videogames are about playing the fucking game

While you could have chosen better words I must wholeheartedly agree with your opinion, good Sir.

[borisshayo]

It doesn't fucking matter if it's "new content" or not. The experience of doing mythic raiding is completely different from doing lfr, which is the only goddamned thing that matters in a videogame. If you think there's not enough to do in this game because there's currently no story after highmaul, rather than a lack of actual gameplay, there is something wrong with your goddamned brain

[Nefarious Tea]

LFR is for sightseeing. Normal/Heroic is another thing entirely. In Norm/HC if you don't do the mechanics right, you die. In LFR maybe one or 2 people die, but you still kill the boss. And then Mythic is another beast entirely with all new mechanics. They aren't "all the same fight just more difficult."

One or two people? hahahahaha

Literally half my raid died the other night on Ko'ragh because the tanks didn't know what to do with the debuff, so for nine minutes we fought him with no tanks and almost no melee.

[Gorsameth]

I did.

I've raided in the past, don't want to now and what people are ignoring here in the debate about whether difficulty = content is that Bashiok didn't come up with a variety of things to do when confronted with the lack of content... all he could come up with is "well, raid on a harder level", i.e. there's just raiding to do.

Contrast this with other expansions where you could rep up and get meaningful starter gear, run heroics even if just for rep or currency, etc. Now, for PVE, you really have only... do one semi-interesting, short raid.

WoW's only real endgame has always been raiding. None of what you list would have lasted you more then a few weeks in any previous expansion either.
I dont understand why people expect differently when it has been this way for 10 years.

[Zelk]

The Temple of the Jade Serpent quest zone is the same as the dungeon guys

[Thyranne]

I really really hate WoD. For me it's the worst expansion that WoW has ever had.

That being said, Mythic and LFR are so different that they are really different content.

[Darmalus]

Does anyone actually do LFR for the experience of seeing the bosses? Like, more than once?

They would have too, since later LFR's usually have a higher ilvl requirement. Unless they want to rely completely on garrison missions.

[Anonymous Coward]

"BRF doesn't come out for another MONTH". I missed the part where 12 days is now considered a month.

[arcaneshot]

I think we're splitting hairs here. Yes, it's a different experience/mechanics, but it's not entirely new content in the sense that the zone is different or there are different bosses.

Imagine a zone in the world, say, Nagrand. Let's say it was silly easy but you could, as you entered the zone, set things to be harder by a few steps and some of the mobs changes the attacks they used. Is that really a new zone? Or is it the same zone with some tweaks? I'd say the latter - it's not a different zone e.g. Spires.

You have it backwards-- it's actually if you take Nagrand and make it so you could kill all the mobs in one hit, and the Elites in three. The default is if the zone was tough as nails (which it can be depending on how you enter the zone). Which of course you can do when the next expansion comes out and you seriously overgear it. Probably not even then.

What that essentially boils down to is you go out of your way to ignore the content until it's no longer relevant before you go and do it-- which is how LFR is compared to Heroic (yes, only that far down) and then wondering what the fuss was about.


ED: You can test this theory now with Dread Wastes, even.

[blackblade]

I have to agree with the blues here in this case. LFR is not normal/heroic by any means - I'm 6/7 in each and when I went into LFR it was akin to a dungeon. Most of the mechanics didn't exist. It's as if they're all-new fights with the same models.

I think its the wolf in sheep's clothing aspect that's deterring players from caring about normal though.

Some people play to socialize, some people play for the RPG aspect, and others play for the competitive aspects. Frankly, the RPG aspect of the playerbase considers content to be everything but actual gameplay. The want lore, they want new models, the want new places to find, and they want ways to level their character.

Some people in that RPG category also care about gear, but for some a suit of purples (welfare or no) is enough.