WW Monk PvP: *new* 4 set bonus

[Deleted]

"Item - Monk WoD PvP Windwalker 4P Bonus (New): Each stack of Tigereye Brew consumed grants you 2.0% damage reduction for 20 sec."


this means that when we play with an affliction warlock, take Chi Explosion and just harvest the enemy team (activate 10 stacks of Tigereye Brew as soon as possible) we will take 20% less damage most of the game.

when not playing harvest cleave the set bonus kinda blows as we won't just randomly pop our 10 stacks of Tigereye Brew whenever.

what are your thoughts?

is this set bonus worth dropping versatility gear?

[spizikes]

Not really sure how i feel about it yet. It's definitely a huge survival buff with the karma as 2 piece and that as 4 piece ... doesn't do much for our clunky FoF and the lack of damage we do. But at least we will have less chance of just falling over when we attempt to put out pressure. Hopefully?

[Deleted]

Seems to me that this will be very hard to get a good grasp of the benefit theoretically, since usefulness will be highly dependant on the situation. At least it´s a direct move against the hit-&-run tactic ww´s were forced to use (more uptime on enemy ==> less damage taken), not sure if it´s sufficient though. I´m curious how much this will push mastery in our pvp-stat prio, awaiting number crunshers eagerly.
The big caveat as always is WW-PvE of course:
-New set bonus because old one sucked ==> New set bonus directly mastery dependant ==> designers seem fine with the way mastery is ==> all the PvE-WWs go

[Celede]

I don't like it. Unless more changes are on the way there are far too many things tied in to Tigerseye Brew. Don't like having both our offensive damage increase and damage reduction tied in to the same spell - just seems clunky.

[SnorlaxJeng]

I don't need to test it to know it is freaking garbage. I'm sure most R1 monks would fall under the same line of thought.

First and foremost, it is stupid to tie our only CD which causes us to not hit like a wet noodle. How would you like if Recklessness popped Die by the Sword, Avenging Wrath popped Divine Shield? Secondly, 20% reduction is nothing. At the rate we take damage now, we can barely hold up for 10 seconds this is going to be another 2 seconds. Thirdly, mastery is shit, this 4p bonus promotes mastery our shittiest stat and in order to get 4p we give away what is most certainly the best stat for melees - versatility.

The following bonus would make more sense:
2p (WW/BrM) Expel harm causes you to gain 1500 versatility for 8-10s.
4p (WW) Consuming Chi causes you to gain an absorption shield for 3% MaxHP per Chi consumed. Last 15s, duration renewable up to a maximum of 75% of the monk's Max HP.
(BrM) Activating Guard causes 2 nearby allies to gain a 60% strength Guard. So long as the Guard on both parties holds, 75% healing or damage done by the monk adds to the absorption amount.

[Deleted]

I don't need to test it to know it is freaking garbage. I'm sure most R1 monks would fall under the same line of thought.

First and foremost, it is stupid to tie our only CD which causes us to not hit like a wet noodle. How would you like if Recklessness popped Die by the Sword, Avenging Wrath popped Divine Shield? Secondly, 20% reduction is nothing. At the rate we take damage now, we can barely hold up for 10 seconds this is going to be another 2 seconds. Thirdly, mastery is shit, this 4p bonus promotes mastery our shittiest stat and in order to get 4p we give away what is most certainly the best stat for melees - versatility.

The following bonus would make more sense:
2p (WW/BrM) Expel harm causes you to gain 1500 versatility for 8-10s.
4p (WW) Consuming Chi causes you to gain an absorption shield for 3% MaxHP per Chi consumed. Last 15s, duration renewable up to a maximum of 75% of the monk's Max HP.
(BrM) Activating Guard causes 2 nearby allies to gain a 60% strength Guard. So long as the Guard on both parties holds, 75% healing or damage done by the monk adds to the absorption amount.

And why not give WW a skill that instantly heals for 100%, no cooldown, no resource?
What you propose is a absorb shield for 40-50K once every 10sec. They might as well rename the spec "Disc WW".
Today's patch notes are, as said in the bottom, just scratching the surface of upcoming balance changes.
Besides, they give WW a mindless and free 20% mitigation most of the time. I'd say that is a good start.

[Emerya]

I don't like it. Unless more changes are on the way there are far too many things tied in to Tigerseye Brew. Don't like having both our offensive damage increase and damage reduction tied in to the same spell - just seems clunky.

Let's not forget our healing as well. Without TeB active, short of a crit heal with double multistrike crits, surging mist heals for nothing. Never mind the worthless healing spheres (Glyph of Fortuitous Spheres as most useless major glyph ever, anyone?) that heal for less than 4K without it.

[Fakie]

(Glyph of Fortuitous Spheres as most useless major glyph ever, anyone?)

I am like 99% certain this ability is plain bugged. It cannot possibly be supposed to heal as pathetically little as it currently does.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Your average Monk would have around 300k HP before fortitude. 6% MaxHP shield takes at least 2 GCD and average of 4s to generate. Meaning almost 1.2% MaxHP/s shield considering you let no energy and chi go to waste. Sure I could just change it to like heal for 3% max HP but the problem of WW now lies in 30s CD stun time they get blown down so hard they can't continue the attrition. You cannot just think it as 36k shield per 10s because you need to build it up. And what is 36k shield in the face of attacks which hit for about that much and crit for more?

If you even remotely think you can have 20% mitigation up most of the time. You sir are sadly mistaken. Don't forget you need to generate them and only use them at 10 stacks. Generating 10 stacks of TeB even with ChiEx is going to take you 20 Chi consumption factoring in generating them that is 15 GCDs which is around 22.5s requiring 450 energy which requires at least 30s to regenerate depending on haste and talent for the first run and 38s for subsequent activation. Tell me how does an average of 10% damage reduction sound to you at the cost offensive CD and not screw up consumption nor is it on demand? See where I am going now?

This shit is as broken as WW/BrM 2p bonus. We don't roll to save energy on jabs, which most of the time only able to get off 1-2 jabs. We roll to break snares or escape.

@Emerya
In PvP multistrike only has 1 roll chance. Hence 1.3*1.5 maximum on crit + multicrit.

[Emerya]

@Emerya
In PvP multistrike only has 1 roll chance. Hence 1.3*1.5 maximum on crit + multicrit.

Ah, I didn't know that applied to heals. Assumed it was just damage rolls. I don't really PVP enough to have noticed I guess.

[Terahertz]

I fucking hate this change. I seriously want to speak to the people making up these absolutely god awful horseshit set bonuses. Do these people even PLAY the classes they design in whatever aspect? Do they know that during TeB our damage is literally on par with every other melee and that we're already god awful horseshit outside of TeB?

"Herp derp, monks rely so much on TeB and do literally nothing outside of it so hey, let's make TeB a defensive mechanic for WW monk!"

I wish I could reply the same way here as on arenajunkies, but basically if you want to see it, scroll down and you'll see it

Rogues have the Feint talent which gives them 30% DR for 4 seconds which only costs them 20 energy. Why the F do we only get damage reduction during our "on-par with all other melee" period?

This just shows how frikking clueless blizzard is and how little they actually know about their classes.

[Deleted]

Well, first off, 300K you hit with honor gear. With that kind of gear you are good for little more than Ashran and random BGs. Say 350K-400K with fortitude. There we are looking at a shield that absorbs 45K in average. Now that's are one crit or two hits from hard hitting skills. Besides, if left unchecked, WW can build up this shield to enormous amounts (75% of max health?). And then get purged and trampled, so he quits and run the whiny forums.
So i don't think adding a wildly changing absorb will fix survivability of WW.

Now 20% mitigation is something nobody can take away. 20% isn't something to rely on when focused, so i don't think you will consider saving your TeB for defense. Rather, you will still use it on offensive only, while adding a sweet moderate mitigation to lower pressure from dots and peeling.

Again, this doesn't *fix* the most fragile spec in WoW history. But it's a good start. Perhaps, they can tweak mastery like they did with Arms allowing for more frequent TeB uptime. And so on.

[Terahertz]

I don't want more frequent uptime on TeB though. I don't want my "burst" to be watered down to oblivion. TeB has been watered down so much ever since they changed the mastery to what it is now which is something that makes WW monks unenjoyable.

They have to stray away from TeB. I don't want both my damage and survivability coming from one specific source. I want to be survivable enough and do enough damage WITHOUT TeB for at least a small period.

This isn't a start. This is a horrible abomination and a huge step back. They need to give WW monks PASSIVE sustainability not any of this bullshit that you have to maintain to be ON PAR with EVERYONE else. Why do monks have to sustain their TeB, their main source of damage that brings them ON PAR with everyone else in order to stay alive, when a rogue can use Feint for 20 energy and take 30% less damage for 4 seconds. Or a feral that takes 10% less dmg passively or takes 20% more healing. Or a warrior/DK that only has to switch stance/presence WHILE STILL DOING DAMAGE.

I get that people classes are different from each other, however with WW monks being such garbage in PvP, a set bonus like this is only a kick in the nuts. I would, no joke, prefer NO set bonus or the reduced energy on Jab after roll set bonus than this set bonus for that specific reason.

[Deleted]

On the right way but its a weird one if you think about rogues damage, utility & defence compared to a WW.

[Ailylia]

This change just makes me sad. I feel like I'm going to have to play my resto druid for the rest of WoD if I want to PvP.

[Rollatorklm]

I don't need to test it to know it is freaking garbage. I'm sure most R1 monks would fall under the same line of thought.

First and foremost, it is stupid to tie our only CD which causes us to not hit like a wet noodle. How would you like if Recklessness popped Die by the Sword, Avenging Wrath popped Divine Shield? Secondly, 20% reduction is nothing. At the rate we take damage now, we can barely hold up for 10 seconds this is going to be another 2 seconds. Thirdly, mastery is shit, this 4p bonus promotes mastery our shittiest stat and in order to get 4p we give away what is most certainly the best stat for melees - versatility.

The following bonus would make more sense:
2p (WW/BrM) Expel harm causes you to gain 1500 versatility for 8-10s.
4p (WW) Consuming Chi causes you to gain an absorption shield for 3% MaxHP per Chi consumed. Last 15s, duration renewable up to a maximum of 75% of the monk's Max HP.
(BrM) Activating Guard causes 2 nearby allies to gain a 60% strength Guard. So long as the Guard on both parties holds, 75% healing or damage done by the monk adds to the absorption amount.

I kinda like the expel harm idea, 1500 vers for 10 seconds + 10% dmg reduction to our stance


but a huge problem with WW is also how much of our dmg comes from FoF, which is basically a 3 second channel screaming "CC ME" we need both stacks and FoF to do dmg which is retarded tbh

they need to give us the warlock/shaman treatment (33% more dmg on lavaburst/chaosbolt) on RSK to make it hurt again, RSK hitting like 10% more than blackout kick is such a huge waste of a button imo, they couldve just removed RSK and baked in the debuff into blackout kick, there is no point for that ability to be there atm
its just a 2nd floppy noodle kick

[Deleted]

6.1 PTR changes: Every monk ability has "noodle" in front of its naming.

[Totaltotemic]

ITT: Changing bonuses from being literally worthless to at least doing something some of the time is absolutely terrible and the entire sky is falling because a single set bonus change doesn't fix the entire disaster that is WW PvP!


Seriously, the bonus is stupid, yes. How, in any possible way, could it be worse than TEB lasting 3 seconds longer though? That was literally one of the worse PvP bonuses I've ever seen in the game, even if you ignore the fact that the bonus exists and just play how you would normally, 20% damage reduction whenever you would have used TEB is a lot more useful than getting a single extra attack in for TEB damage when WWs roll over and die if something looks at them funny. Screaming about the bonus because it's not your wet dream that solves all of WWs problems is just plain whining, of course it's an improvement over what's there.

Also the comparisons of 10 stacks of TEB to Recklessness and Avenging Wrath are absolutely hilarious. The only time it would take that long to get 10 stacks of TEB are if you're literally doing nothing for 2 minutes straight since double Chi Brew into Chi Explosion will guaranteed get you 6 stacks. A single round of Serenity with actual uptime will get you up to 10 stacks. TEB isn't even close to a 2 minute cooldown unless you're playing backwards 2s where everyone and their mother is CC'd for 9 years straight.

It's not a great bonus, it's not even a good bonus, but it's something, which is a step up from the literally worthless bonus that was there before. One set bonus will also not fix the multitude of problems with WW PvP, so it doesn't matter what god bonus you think up in your head, it couldn't possibly fix everything wrong. Stop acting like one set bonus is what determines if a spec is OP or worthless, that's just ridiculous and makes you look like you're throwing a tantrum.

[Terahertz]

It's not the set bonus specifically. It's the fact that blizzard doesn't know how to balance their own classes. It's aggravating to say the least to see such changes being made that are clunky and not even necessarily fun.

Also the fact that we rely SO MUCH on TeB is stupid. The fact that our damage and survivability outside of TeB is non-existent is frustrating when warriors are running around doing easily the same damage/higher than WW monk damage DURING TeB without any CDs up.

It's a slap in the face.

[Deleted]

It's not the set bonus specifically. It's the fact that blizzard doesn't know how to balance their own classes. It's aggravating to say the least to see such changes being made that are clunky and not even necessarily fun.

Also the fact that we rely SO MUCH on TeB is stupid. The fact that our damage and survivability outside of TeB is non-existent is frustrating when warriors are running around doing easily the same damage/higher than WW monk damage DURING TeB without any CDs up.

It's a slap in the face.

Yes, buffing our defense in PvP fits right into the definition of slap in the face.

Aside from that: Do we know how this buff actually works? It seems to be seperate from the TeB buff since it has different duration. Might this be a stackable buff that gets renewed every TeB usage and with added stacks?

cheers