PTR Notes- DFA 25% damage increase

[Ryme]

I'm just thinking rogues who do butcher mythic are good enough to do that and would want to max their dps?

I believe DfA works like Shadowstep and would likely kill you or your stacked side more often than not on mythic Butcher.

[Skarzog]

I'm just thinking rogues who do butcher mythic are good enough to do that and would want to max their dps?

Optimal is not always practical. Just because you raid Mythic does not mean you don't take into consideration what is more practical to use than something else. For example; I think MfD has been shown to be a slight damage increase over Anticipation for a while now, and yet everyone still uses Anticipation as Sub.

Now if Blizzard is stubborn as they seem to be and refuse to actually fix the practical issues with this talent and just buff it until we have no choice but to use it, then that is what will happen. My issue with DFA is the high energy cost and momentary loss of control. There is also still the issue of the ability misfiring in certain situations which Blizzard seems to think we are all lying about.

DFA should have been an enhanced finisher with the same cost as a normal finisher and less bonus damage than it will have in 6.1. Or if they were creative, lol, introduce some new mechanic for each spec to go along with the finisher.

Edit: And yes, displacing yourself every 20s on Mythic Butcher is a great way to get either yourself or your group killed.

[Deleted]

Optimal is not always practical. Just because you raid Mythic does not mean you don't take into consideration what is more practical to use than something else. For example; I think MfD has been shown to be a slight damage increase over Anticipation for a while now, and yet everyone still uses Anticipation as Sub.

Now if Blizzard is stubborn as they seem to be and refuse to actually fix the practical issues with this talent and just buff it until we have no choice but to use it, then that is what will happen. My issue with DFA is the high energy cost and momentary loss of control. There is also still the issue of the ability misfiring in certain situations which Blizzard seems to think we are all lying about.

DFA should have been an enhanced finisher with the same cost as a normal finisher and less bonus damage than it will have in 6.1. Or if they were creative, lol, introduce some new mechanic for each spec to go along with the finisher.

Edit: And yes, displacing yourself every 20s on Mythic Butcher is a great way to get either yourself or your group killed.

I get what you are saying
I actually use MFD on several fights. Its pretty ridiculus on a lot of fights in highmaul.

Personally i would like to see some more utility in that tree instead of MFD. Anticipation is great for utility(and a slight damage boost for cd' usage). A talent that would make Backstap into Dispatch for Sub would be good on some fights though.

Overall i'm actually not to fond of most of the rogue talents.

[Hemat]

Everyone arguing over dfa is losing sight of just the fun of the ability. At 669 I have 5518 agility raid buffed. With pot up I break 100k evisc when find weakness is up. When this buff comes in to dfa we'll be in much better gear. On normal runs when you're not min maxing who wouldn't want to get all your trinkets and buffs up and bust out 250-300 dfa crits!!
I did napkin math of just replacing my shitty lfr trink with the 680 alchemy trink. That proc with a pot and 690 ring proc is over 8800 agility.

[Deleted]

20 sec killing spree for all!

Geez, I hate selfkilling spree so much I'm using CoS or feint pre KS, but physical ground effects (M tectus) can kill you anyway

[dak1]

Everyone arguing over dfa is losing sight of just the fun of the ability. At 669 I have 5518 agility raid buffed. With pot up I break 100k evisc when find weakness is up. When this buff comes in to dfa we'll be in much better gear. On normal runs when you're not min maxing who wouldn't want to get all your trinkets and buffs up and bust out 250-300 dfa crits!!
I did napkin math of just replacing my shitty lfr trink with the 680 alchemy trink. That proc with a pot and 690 ring proc is over 8800 agility.

Maybe it would be more fun if it worked and wasn't a giant "CC me I can't do anything about it" sign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elRm...ature=youtu.be

[Ryme]

I thought they removed that issue?

[dak1]

I thought they removed that issue?

Lol, no. They made it slightly better. If you watch the video closely, you'll notice a DfA buff on the Rogue performing the action (that's how they "fixed" it). The problem is, that buff ends right about the same time the Rogue starts to descend. So it's still fairly easy to CC the Rogue after the immunity buff ends but before they have control of their character again, the window is just slightly smaller.

I have to wonder if the people coding it are aware it's a bad bandaid fix at the time or not, because PvPers had this figured out basically the day it was implemented.

At least one of them was clueless though: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...09573830582272

[Ryme]

Ha, wow, what a fix.

I read there that mobility can break it as well, do you know how intense the move needs to be to cause it? I'm wondering if this could become an issue in pve as well.

[dak1]

Ha, wow, what a fix.

I read there that mobility can break it as well, do you know how intense the move needs to be to cause it? I'm wondering if this could become an issue in pve as well.

As soon as the same DfA buff ends, the Rogue has effectively picked a "spot" on the ground and moves rapidly to those coordinates. You then literally perform an off global cooldown Evis/Envenom (or attempt to). If the spot you landed however is not in range or facing the target, then it will silently fail.

The movement does not need to be a whole lot. On a perfectly flat terrain just running away from the Rogue, you merely need to run ~5 yards in the time it takes for the Rogue to descend and then perform the finisher (maybe half a second?). Normal run speed won't be fast enough, but most speed boosts will (so a Druid running faster after Displacer Beast, a Mage with Blazing Speed, a Rogue with Burst of Speed/Sprint, a Hunter that Disengaged, etc).

When you're on uneven ground, it can be even sillier. A small step can do it.

There also seems to be a problem with the way the coordinates are calculated and the Rogue moved to the location, as I suspect it sometimes does not quite get you to where it wants to put you, and it ends up failing anyway (like on some target dummies).

You can see some pretty humorous effects of the above if you do things like Death Grip a Rogue on a Mage using Blazing Speed while the DfA buff is still active, or DfA a Rogue that is trying to DfA you.

[Deleted]

Would love to see a DfA shadowstep-like

[Eazy]

With the damage buff and elongation of Envenom DFA can be best for Assassination, do not forget about Empowered Envenom.

And just change Enhanced Crimson Tempest to Envenom or some other ability and I'll be happy.
(Who's using Crimson Tempest as Assassination rogue?)

[Essem]

•Death from Above (Assassination): AoE damage increased from 133.3% of AP to 166.6% of AP.
•Death from Above (Combat, Subtlety): AoE damage increased from 133.3% of AP to 166.6% of AP.

So its only the aoe pulse that gets increased by 25% and not the finisher damage? Thats pretty funny if thats the case.
Every specc has Crimson Tempest right, so just change the pitiful aoe pulse to a 5 point Crimson Tempest in additon to the 50% more finisher damage, then it would be a good talent for both aoe and single target. Increase the cd to 30 seconds if needed or whatever.

[Feali]

At least one of them was clueless though: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...09573830582272

This guy is a fucking joke. Seriously. How does he still have a job?

[Ryme]

•Death from Above (Assassination): AoE damage increased from 133.3% of AP to 166.6% of AP.
•Death from Above (Combat, Subtlety): AoE damage increased from 133.3% of AP to 166.6% of AP.

So its only the aoe pulse that gets increased by 25% and not the finisher damage? Thats pretty funny if thats the case.
Every specc has Crimson Tempest right, so just change the pitiful aoe pulse to a 5 point Crimson Tempest in additon to the 50% more finisher damage, then it would be a good talent for both aoe and single target. Increase the cd to 30 seconds if needed or whatever.

If it really is just the whirl, then the talent stays dead for all specs unless the extended duration on envenom is something particularly special.

[Deleted]

If it really is just the whirl, then the talent stays dead for all specs unless the extended duration on envenom is something particularly special.

I'm kinda glad that rogues won't be forced to use another kill-me-spree like ability, though cool-looking (when it actually works).
This I feel is especially true for Subtlety where having another 20s CD would feel more like a chore to manage optimally.

[Deleted]

Would love to see a DfA shadowstep-like

I was trying DfA on Imperator before the combo point nerf. After first intermission we tank him where he stands (on HC), which means he teleports across the whole room when he goes into the second intermission. I used DfA and while in the air he teleported across the room, so i flew after him and landed on the other side, down below imperator.

Was quite fun and a loooong "shadow step dfa" :P

[Karben]

Could you possibly link me the log where you have 100%(or close to, as in 97-100) uptime on envenom?

I'd really like to see that

I was thinking the same thing. My best was on twins/brackenspore and even then it was just under 70%. 67 and some change to be exact.

100%=/=70%

I think the extended duration on envenom sounds pretty cool tbh. I really want dfa to be viable. Even if its only on trash/5 mans. Its such a sick idea. I agree that they need to fix the hit/no hit bug, first and foremost. They just need to make it so if it doesn't hit you get refunded cps. That'd make everyone happy. It would still suck, but at least you didn't just waste 2 whole energy bars on wasted combo points (sin).

[seraphbreak]

Honestly tired of using abilities where I lose control of my character and die to the environment. We already suffer through killing spree (extended from 5 attacks to 7), now they are trying to get us to switch to DfA? Losing control is never fun.

[dak1]

They just need to make it so if it doesn't hit you get refunded cps. That'd make everyone happy.

It does refund the combo points. I still CC'ed myself for 2 seconds and lost 50 energy. It doesn't make me happy.