Multistrike now Combat's best stat?

[Miko]

Are you looking at normal mode rankings? The person linked a normal mode fight, so that's the rankings I was looking at on WCL. I see a death knight doing 33k damage on this WCL report, and it's in the 93rd percentile. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings

We have tens of millions of data points. My guess is WCL has 3-10x that right now.

Ya normal mode rankings, also from personal logs when we did normal I was around 40kish or so at the same ilvl.

I would say at like 650? Haste may actually be on par with multi due to needed haste to sustain a proper aoe rotation, however at 661 that falls to the wayside and it always does on 3+ targets. In the logs Selekah posted he missed alot of dps opportunities, to me that alone would say that normal mode or not 99th would be wrong. I don't know how AMR is ranking tho so I can't really say, but if I'm looking at the dps logs right I'm see only 3 ambushes?

What does a dk doing 33k have to do with a rogue? 99th is pretty dang high. World of difference in even 95th and a 99th.

[Sesleri]

I see a death knight doing 33k damage on this WCL report, and it's in the 93rd percentile.

This is the rogue forum

Answer to this thread is yes, it's optimal to stack multistrike and play Sub/Combat.

[Miko]

This is the rogue forum

Answer to this thread is yes, it's optimal to stack multistrike and play Sub/Combat.

I would go even further and say its optimal to stack it going full time combat, not that I'm going to..but its over all more dps(way more) for these cleave fights.

[Jackielope]

I would go even further and say its optimal to stack it going full time combat, not that I'm going to..but its over all more dps(way more) for these cleave fights.

Random non-rogue here, but this goes along the lines of playing to a spec's strengths. If the gain from multi is so big on cleave fights while being a very small loss on single target then it sounds like the optimal path overall, assuming majority of fights can benefit from the cleave damage, is indeed multistrike. Find a niche and exploit it after all.

[Miko]

Random non-rogue here, but this goes along the lines of playing to a spec's strengths. If the gain from multi is so big on cleave fights while being a very small loss on single target then it sounds like the optimal path overall, assuming majority of fights can benefit from the cleave damage, is indeed multistrike. Find a niche and exploit it after all.

Ya, its like 200dps loss on butcher and pretty big gain on everything else for me. I'm not sure if its even weighted accordingly to how much better it is on some fights like tec and imp. Those fights have such high aoe burst phases you can really take advantage if you can manage to line up some things. I am however sticking with haste, because I like it.

[Zoopercat]

My bad, got my threads crossed! Oops.
I found a rogue doing around 33k dps in the right iLevel bracket (648-662) on WCL and it says he's in the 95th percentile for that bracket: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings

Mr. Robot also shows him in the 95th percentile, though our bracket is a bit smaller (655-662). But since he's at the top end of both (661), that should be a half-way ok comparison.

WCL shows him in the 89th percentile for his spec, and we show the 95th precentile for his spec. I guess WCL isn't showing the overall % (or I'm missing it, very possible!). We show 99th percentile overall, but I'm sure that would come down as we get more data. 10s of millions is a lot, but the higher end gear is a much smaller portion. Adding more of those will slowly change the percentages.

Again, so sorry for getting the threads crossed!

[Miko]

My bad, got my threads crossed! Oops.
I found a rogue doing around 33k dps in the right iLevel bracket (648-662) on WCL and it says he's in the 95th percentile for that bracket: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings

Mr. Robot also shows him in the 95th percentile, though our bracket is a bit smaller (655-662). But since he's at the top end of both (661), that should be a half-way ok comparison.

WCL shows him in the 89th percentile for his spec, and we show the 95th precentile for his spec. I guess WCL isn't showing the overall % (or I'm missing it, very possible!). We show 99th percentile overall, but I'm sure that would come down as we get more data. 10s of millions is a lot, but the higher end gear is a much smaller portion. Adding more of those will slowly change the percentages.

Again, so sorry for getting the threads crossed!

That log you posted is a week older then his log, that makes a difference. Also again 95th percentiles are very very different then a 99th. Showing 99th overall with sub optimal enchants and rotation just doesn't make since to me. I'm really not trying to be an ass, just trying to figure out what the top 1% actually means for AMR. When I ran tec normal like I said I was around 39-40k, we did aoe everything to the ground we where all 655-660. I wasn't even the top dps and I'm far far from being a 99th rogue or overall. Some of the WCL with 33k even date back to being before combat buffs and place then 94th of combat and 80th over all. Obviously looking at Selekah's logs and other history on Warcraft I'd says he's a good rogue, in not questioning that. But 99th? I don't really think so. I do understand its normal and a joke of a fight, but that apples to everyone. Maybe most top end rogues or even players don't log normals?

I think I'll run AMR this week and see how it places our raid and a few pugs. The tool seems pretty neat, but right now WCL has got a pretty big edge, however it was like that a while ago for them vs World of logs if I remember right.

Sorry for derailing, so back on topic looks like around 650(depending on gear using an optimal aoe rotation) multi takes ahead of haste on 2 targets( bracken, twins) it's a monster for imp, blade fist and tec and kor.

So from my sims I get multi>haste for all that is combat. The other stats don't really matter as you don't get to choose.

[Zoopercat]

Miko, you're not being an ass I actually like engaging in these discussions, it's hard to get people to think critically about things, which is what helps improve things overall, right?! So we stop derailing (sorry everyone), I'll send you some info in a PM.

[Multistryke]

Answer to this thread is yes, it's optimal to stack multistrike and play Sub/Combat.

Pretty much this.

[Foodstamps]

The are VERY close. I'd go multi

[Rontu]

I am at 691 ilvl and haste / multistrike sim just about equal (multi is slightly ahead) for me on 2 target fights

right now i go for haste gear and i gem/enchant multi strike only because there is no "true" aoe encounter except for maybe Iron Maidens.

the below is taken into account on mythic difficulty

Gruul - single target - haste dominates
Oregorger - single target. i would favor here due to crate damage. Boss damage is never usually a problem. - haste dominates
Franzok - majority of the time you won't be able to cleave so it's mostly single with 2 target cleave at some points > haste dominates
Darmac - 2 target cleave most of the time with occasional aoe (the aoe summons die so fast anyways, even on mythic). > multi dominates
Flamebender - single target fight for the majority so haste should dominate. however boss damage means nothing and it's all about killing the dogs in time, so > multi dominates
Kromag - single target with occasional aoe from the grasping hands. those hands die so fast we're supposed to stop dps until kromag finishes casting or we wipe. > haste dominates
thogar - multi strike is only slightly ahead on this boss as adds are not always up (they die nearly instantly once they spawn). on top of that, man at arms dmg is extremely important for this encounter. > multi if you are a scumbag dps
iron maidens - multi strike dominates this fight. but for arguements sake, the 2 most difficult times in this encounter is the single target boat phase and the sub 20% burn phase where haste might be ahead (maybe).
Blast Furnace - currently progressing on this boss. Multi strike may not be ahead here since there are so many priority targets (bellowers in phase 1, elementalists in phase 2)

But even then, i am a 100% combat rogue and will use it to the bitter end even if it falls short to subtlety to single target fights.

[B L A D E]

If you are only going for 1 set of items for combat with enchants and gems, you wanna just go Multistrike.

Even if you are not using Subtetly for singletarget and you are only combat, Haste is only slightly better than Multistrike on single/dual targets.

So, except if you are a jerk like me who just wanna maximize DPS on whatever fight I can, you just wanna go full Multistrike. Else you wanna use Haste-based combat set for Frans and Flamebender (if Mythic then multi tho)

[slime]

I am at 691 ilvl and haste / multistrike sim just about equal (multi is slightly ahead) for me on 2 target fights


But even then, i am a 100% combat rogue and will use it to the bitter end even if it falls short to subtlety to single target fights.

I like how you think.

[Fiska]

If a Rogue plans to play Subtlety for ST fights and Combat for AoE fights, then Multistrike is obviously the way to go. For a Rogue who plans to play Combat, and nothing but Combat, his choice comes down to wether he wants to focus on ST or AoE dps. If he wants to focus on ST, then Haste is the way to go. Otherwise Multistrike.

It really isn't more complicated than this.

[kilj]

I am at 691 ilvl and haste / multistrike sim just about equal (multi is slightly ahead) for me on 2 target fights

right now i go for haste gear and i gem/enchant multi strike only because there is no "true" aoe encounter except for maybe Iron Maidens.

the below is taken into account on mythic difficulty

Gruul - single target - haste dominates
Oregorger - single target. i would favor here due to crate damage. Boss damage is never usually a problem. - haste dominates
Franzok - majority of the time you won't be able to cleave so it's mostly single with 2 target cleave at some points > haste dominates
Darmac - 2 target cleave most of the time with occasional aoe (the aoe summons die so fast anyways, even on mythic). > multi dominates
Flamebender - single target fight for the majority so haste should dominate. however boss damage means nothing and it's all about killing the dogs in time, so > multi dominates
Kromag - single target with occasional aoe from the grasping hands. those hands die so fast we're supposed to stop dps until kromag finishes casting or we wipe. > haste dominates
thogar - multi strike is only slightly ahead on this boss as adds are not always up (they die nearly instantly once they spawn). on top of that, man at arms dmg is extremely important for this encounter. > multi if you are a scumbag dps
iron maidens - multi strike dominates this fight. but for arguements sake, the 2 most difficult times in this encounter is the single target boat phase and the sub 20% burn phase where haste might be ahead (maybe).
Blast Furnace - currently progressing on this boss. Multi strike may not be ahead here since there are so many priority targets (bellowers in phase 1, elementalists in phase 2)

But even then, i am a 100% combat rogue and will use it to the bitter end even if it falls short to subtlety to single target fights.

but Rontu you got a sub spec atm!!!! TRAITOR http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n/Rontu/simple