PTR Notes - Mindbender

[anon5123]

Mindbender lasts for 20 seconds (up from 15 seconds).

So Mindbender now lasts an additional 5 seconds; anyone know how this will affect its regen compared to Solace?

[Deleted]

Currently my mindbender hits 13 times, once every 1.24sec resulting in 1365mp5. if it hits 17 times in 20sec. then that should increase to 1785mp5.

Solace offers 3360 mana per hit resulting in 1680mp5 if used exactly on CD.

So it looks like mindbender will offer more raw mp5 than solace.
Things to consider that will drastically change this;
Solace being delayed by just 1 GCD will mean it drops to 1495mp5
Using mindbender during a timewarp will drastically increase it's mp5, especially on short fights
If you start counting in mana saved by casting solace instead of another spell then its value will skyrocket, this is especailly true for disc where you benefit from the evang stack
If you start counting the mana cost of casting more expensive heals to catch up on the lost hps by casting the low healing of solace or the dead healing of mindbender then things start to get extremely complicated.

End of the day though it looks like this should push mindbender ahead (of SoL, which I'd argue is already better than solace) for holy whilst solace should still be strong for disc (since you'd just be casting holy fire without it)

edit; just for a baseline comparison a 0 haste mindbender should hit 14 times resulting in 1470mp5, this is behind solace
if mindbender hits 16 times 1.25sec GCD (this is probably likely for most average geared holy priests, or most disc priests) then it offers 1680mp5, EXACTLY equal to using solace on CD with no delay.

[anon5123]

So Mindbender was brought up to snuff with Solace's regen. Good to know! I've grown rather tired of having to cast Solace on CD, tbh. I suppose it will still be superior for Disc priests, at least until you get the 2pc bonus that gives you free evangelism for casting Penance.

On the subject of Heroism though, I'd want them to make it affect pets the same way it affects DoTs/HoTs, in that it automatically updates without having to recast. So that instead of having to time your mindbender JUST before Heroism, you can just cast it after heroism, and it will automatically get the attack speed buff.

IE, it would base its attack speed off of your current haste, instead of having its attack speed modified by the Heroism buff. That's what I want. It's not a problem for pet classes because they have their pets out all the time, but a problem for Priests because our pets are temporary.

[Deleted]

So Mindbender was brought up to snuff with Solace's regen. Good to know! I've grown rather tired of having to cast Solace on CD, tbh. I suppose it will still be superior for Disc priests, at least until you get the 2pc bonus that gives you free evangelism for casting Penance.

On the subject of Heroism though, I'd want them to make it affect pets the same way it affects DoTs/HoTs, in that it automatically updates without having to recast. So that instead of having to time your mindbender JUST before Heroism, you can just cast it after heroism, and it will automatically get the attack speed buff.

IE, it would base its attack speed off of your current haste, instead of having its attack speed modified by the Heroism buff. That's what I want. It's not a problem for pet classes because they have their pets out all the time, but a problem for Priests because our pets are temporary.

Pet stats should already update dynamically. Shadow fiend does it since pandaria I think.

[Deleted]

So Mindbender was brought up to snuff with Solace's regen. Good to know! I've grown rather tired of having to cast Solace on CD, tbh. I suppose it will still be superior for Disc priests, at least until you get the 2pc bonus that gives you free evangelism for casting Penance.

On the subject of Heroism though, I'd want them to make it affect pets the same way it affects DoTs/HoTs, in that it automatically updates without having to recast. So that instead of having to time your mindbender JUST before Heroism, you can just cast it after heroism, and it will automatically get the attack speed buff.

IE, it would base its attack speed off of your current haste, instead of having its attack speed modified by the Heroism buff. That's what I want. It's not a problem for pet classes because they have their pets out all the time, but a problem for Priests because our pets are temporary.

it updates automatically, if heroism is active when you cast mindbender then mindbender will benefit, if mindbender is out before heroism then it will start hitting faster when heroism is cast. it's attack speed now directly scales with your haste% and updates per hit

[Anastacy]

it updates automatically, if heroism is active when you cast mindbender then mindbender will benefit, if mindbender is out before heroism then it will start hitting faster when heroism is cast. it's attack speed now directly scales with your haste% and updates per hit

Of course, though, your Mindbender will only get the full benefit of Time Warp/Heroism/Bloodlust if it is out for the full duration window of those effects, so the question becomes...is a bit of "timing" is still beneficial, or just "use on cooldown"?

[anon5123]

it updates automatically, if heroism is active when you cast mindbender then mindbender will benefit, if mindbender is out before heroism then it will start hitting faster when heroism is cast. it's attack speed now directly scales with your haste% and updates per hit

Oh good.

So yeah, I guess Mindbender will be the best for Holy priests then. Yay~

[Deleted]

Of course, though, your Mindbender will only get the full benefit of Time Warp/Heroism/Bloodlust if it is out for the full duration window of those effects, so the question becomes...is a bit of "timing" is still beneficial, or just "use on cooldown"?

Bloodlust is mostly cast at pull anyway. And if not, than it is timed exactly for some scenario so u know when it is going out.

[Anastacy]

Bloodlust is mostly cast at pull anyway. And if not, than it is timed exactly for some scenario so u know when it is going out.

BL at pull doesn't really benefit Mindbender's mana returns.

[Deleted]

It's a benefit to mindbender for sure but timewarp is necessary for mindbender to be useful I just thought I'd mention it as a factor that can increase it's mana returns

[Aparthia]

Mindbender gains another attack at:

Haste	Attacks	Mana
0	13	9.75
5	14	10.5
12.5	15	11.25
20	16	12
27.5	17	12.75
35	18	13.5
42.5	19	14.25
50	20	15
57.5	21	15.75
65	22	16.5
72.5	23	17.25
80	24	18
87.5	25	18.75

That means it surpasses Solace in raw mana gain(not counting the mana you're not using by using Solace instead of eg Renew) at 20% haste.

[Deleted]

Mindbender gains another attack at:

Haste	Attacks	Mana
0	13	9.75
5	14	10.5
12.5	15	11.25
20	16	12
27.5	17	12.75
35	18	13.5
42.5	19	14.25
50	20	15
57.5	21	15.75
65	22	16.5
72.5	23	17.25
80	24	18
87.5	25	18.75

That means it surpasses Solace in raw mana gain(not counting the mana you're not using by using Solace instead of eg Renew) at 20% haste.

Have you tested those numbers? I was getting 14 hits with 0 haste, although I'm a gnome so the lowest haste% I can get is 1%. The first hit happens instantly then every GCD after, it may be that you need slightly over to account for the first hit being delayed by travel time or server delay (much like the old totem haste breakpoints). in any case from your numbers I think it attacks once more for each of those haste values

[Aparthia]

Have you tested those numbers? I was getting 14 hits with 0 haste, although I'm a gnome so the lowest haste% I can get is 1%. The first hit happens instantly then every GCD after, it may be that you need slightly over to account for the first hit being delayed by travel time or server delay (much like the old totem haste breakpoints). in any case from your numbers I think it attacks once more for each of those haste values

You wouldn't be able to get 14 hits on live with 0 haste. On live you get 11 attacks with base haste and then 1 extra attack for every 10% haste you have. 10% would total 12 hits, 20% haste 13 attacks.

That table does actually not have the initial hit. But you can just add one to the value. The default attack speed on mindbender is 1.5s with no haste. That means it'd get 14 hits when the 20s duration hits PTR, and 11 on live. I haven't tested it, I assume it has the same AS as live. If they changed the AS, then you'd need to adjust.

I just went on to live to test it, here are the results, working as they should.

Haste	attacks 
0	11
7.22	11
10.07	12
37.58	14
62.12	17

Extrapolating from that, and correcting my mistake for not including initial attack, here's the mana return for the 20s mindbender assuming 1.5s base attack speed. This means MB breaks even with the raw mana gain from Solace with 12.5% haste

Haste	Attacks	Mana
0	14	10.5
5	15	11.25
12.5	16	12
20	17	12.75
27.5	18	13.5
35	19	14.25
42.5	20	15
50	21	15.75
57.5	22	16.5
65	23	17.25
72.5	24	18
80	25	18.75
87.5	26	19.5

[Deleted]

That matches my initial post above for 16 hits

[Deleted]

Mindbender lasting 20 seconds strikes me as another reason to run Power Infusion. It will also almost certainly be the better choice for Discipline once the two set is acquired.

[Deleted]

Mindbender lasting 20 seconds strikes me as another reason to run Power Infusion. It will also almost certainly be the better choice for Discipline once the two set is acquired.

That's actually a very interesting point since you can use every 2nd mindbender with PI you'll be gaining attacks (and therefore mana) that way, will add the maths when I get time later

[Deleted]

That's actually a very interesting point since you can use every 2nd mindbender with PI you'll be gaining attacks (and therefore mana) that way, will add the maths when I get time later

Also worth considering are the impacts of goblin (best race, master race, best class is goblin), gnome and troll racials on mana regeneration through Mindbender. While the former two might not be so amazing, the extra 15% haste that Trolls have for every third Mindbender could be very valuable - especially if timed well with PI if the effects stack. I don't know if they do as I haven't been Troll on my priest for over a year or so.

I also can't check in-game right now but would Borrowed Time have an impact as well? I am presuming it would be marginal at very best.

[Deleted]

Also worth considering are the impacts of goblin (best race, master race, best class is goblin), gnome and troll racials on mana regeneration through Mindbender. While the former two might not be so amazing, the extra 15% haste that Trolls have for every third Mindbender could be very valuable - especially if timed well with PI if the effects stack. I don't know if they do as I haven't been Troll on my priest for over a year or so.

I also can't check in-game right now but would Borrowed Time have an impact as well? I am presuming it would be marginal at very best.

Borrowed time should work unless it's a bug, haven't tested it.

Also you lie. Gnome is master race.

[Deleted]

Borrowed time should work unless it's a bug, haven't tested it.

Also you lie. Gnome is master race.

Gobbo booty bigger and dem hips don't lie honey. How are you supposed to heal if you don't got buns hun? Would hate to play a blood elf male. No healin' from that flat ass.

On topic... Probably worth checking out the mana gain of Berserking. It might be a hidden though useful perk to being a Troll priest instead of a pocket healer or Compact Disc (we can agree that that applies to both Gnomes and Goblins, yah?).

[anon5123]

That's actually a very interesting point since you can use every 2nd mindbender with PI you'll be gaining attacks (and therefore mana) that way, will add the maths when I get time later

And if you have a haste trinket (Shards, etc) then you can have a haste buff for every Mindbender!