Sympathising with The Devil: a Hollywood Agenda?

[Demona3]

If they're pure evil then how were they capable of loving their own children?

People are incredibly fucked up I guess. =P

[Graeham]

I don't think there's anything sinister about it. It's usually fairly easy to tell when a movie is pushing blatant agendas and when it's simply telling a great story because it wants to tell a great story. People aren't black and white - we all have shades of grey to various degrees.

[zorkuus]

People are incredibly fucked up I guess. =P

Or they're not pure evil...

[Goradan]

Welcome to real life. Pure evil does not exist, the world isn't black and white.

it does but that is like looking for a needle in the world, thankfully. but the same does for good people.

[spinner981]

Welcome to real life. Pure evil does not exist, the world isn't black and white.

Except your definitive statement saying there is definitely no black or white apparently. I mean, if you claim the world is 0% black or white, isn't that statement in and of itself a black and white claim? Of course, how you arrive at such a conclusion to begin with is questionable, since lots of people tend to like to say those kinds of things but never provide any legitimate reasoning for it.

If we accept the reality that good and evil exist (that right and wrong are things that are real) then claiming that neither black nor white moral situations/acts exist is ludicrous. How can you take the components of an action (because, granted, an action might be 50% fueled by something good and 50% fueled by something bad) and not separate them as black and white? How can a single thing be both good and bad, both right and wrong, both evil and righteous? It doesn't make any sense at all, and nobody ever tries to explain it with anything other than "But it doesn't matter because that's how it works!"

[Noomz]

I think anyone who commits evil is evil there's no subtext to their evil explaining that X happened to them so they became twisted. So in my opinion I can name thousands of bad guys who are bad because they're evil. Perhaps you have an issue naming them because you've been brainwashed into empathising with evil?



What do you think of the devil?

I guess you haven't got what it takes to see nuances in the world then. Evil is subjective anyhow, so to discuss what it is would go on forever because it's all opinion and no facts. Morality is a social construct. What's been called evil has changed and will keep on changing.

You've got be quite sheltered to not see how everyone in this world calls one another evil over many different things.

[Kaleredar]

I think anyone who commits evil is evil there's no subtext to their evil explaining that X happened to them so they became twisted. So in my opinion I can name thousands of bad guys who are bad because they're evil. Perhaps you have an issue naming them because you've been brainwashed into empathising with evil?

If you just cut away all pretext from bad guys, then they're just mustache-twirling villains that don't make for good stories because there's no depth.

The only "intriguing" villain who was just "bad for the sake of bad" that I can think of is the Joker in The Dark Knight. That's really it.

Anything beyond that and your villains just become predictable foils for some hero to kill for your cheap cathartic payoff.

[MisterSuit]

Even Hitler liked dogs. Pure evil is a myth and villians that go "i kill cus of lols" are usually increadibly bad villians. As for my thoughts on satan? the guy simply didnt agree with a very jealouse and vengeful god and rebelled. Who is more evil, the omnicient guy who punishes people for doing what he knew they would be doing or the guy that rebelled against that?

[Deleted]

Pure evil does exist sadly. It may not start out pure evil, but somewhere along the way, it became that... take the holocaust for example. Tell me that wasn't pure evil. The horrific things that happened to all of those people, and especially twins.. was beyond appalling. Everyone that played a part in the deaths of those people are nothing short of pure evil.

So the things learned from those experiments are incapable of doing something good? Im not saying that what was done was good or anything like that. But nothing is pure evil, not even the holocaust. For the holocaust to be truly evil they would have needed to kill the jews for just for the sake of being evil. Any other motive then that will preclude it from being "evil" and make it to just someone being a self centered asshole.

[Zelk]

What does the devil have to do with evil? At my church we learn how he gave humans great enjoyment in life, which God would take from us because they're "sinful".

[Flurryfang]

Even Hitler liked dogs. Pure evil is a myth and villians that go "i kill cus of lols" are usually increadibly bad villians. As for my thoughts on satan? the guy simply didnt agree with a very jealouse and vengeful god and rebelled. Who is more evil, the omnicient guy who punishes people for doing what he knew they would be doing or the guy that rebelled against that?

Well said! Here take a cookie!

[Eace]

Do young children need to connect with the bad guy in a story and be empathetic to their character and sympathetic to their plight? My answer is no.

This is the illusion that evil people are not evil because they are bad but because something bad happened to them. In fact this is not true evil is not made it's born. Think about it.

If you think evil is born, not made, then why does it matter if children watch movies with evil characters?

[zorkuus]

Except your definitive statement saying there is definitely no black or white apparently. I mean, if you claim the world is 0% black or white, isn't that statement in and of itself a black and white claim? Of course, how you arrive at such a conclusion to begin with is questionable, since lots of people tend to like to say those kinds of things but never provide any legitimate reasoning for it.

So deep... almost feels like I'm 14 again.

[spinner981]

I guess you haven't got what it takes to see nuances in the world then. Evil is subjective anyhow, so to discuss what it is would go on forever because it's all opinion and no facts. Morality is a social construct. What's been called evil has changed and will keep on changing.

You've got be quite sheltered to not see how everyone in this world calls one another evil over many different things.

Morality and perceived morality are two entirely different subjects. The existence of one does not negate the possibility of the existence of the other.

So deep... almost feels like I'm 14 again.

You really mixed it up with that one. Of course, I rather be simple minded and right than be sophisticated and wrong. However, I would say that resorting to pointless posts like this are that of a simple minded person.

[derpkitteh]

Welcome to real life. Pure evil does not exist, the world isn't black and white.

come meet our landlord. if he isn't evil, he's at least the incarnation of greed.

[Noomz]

Except that's completely unrealistic. Who is "evil" with no reasoning? Other than the odd cases of psychopaths, who have mental disorders, even the most twisted, vengeful people in history "had their reasons," even if those reasons were insane. Hitler and his whole "purify the human race" thing was awful, but they didn't do it "for the lols." They legitimately thought that what they were doing was right.

As far as Emperor/Vader, no one sympathizes with the emperor. No one feels bad when the emperor dies. But you feel bad when Darth Vader dies. You want to know more about Darth Vader's story, and why he became Darth Vader and who he was. But no one cares about the emperor. No one cares how he became the emperor, because everyone assumes he was just an asshole all along.

Any writer wants people to care about their characters. All of them. That's what makes a compelling story.



How many movies just straight have satan as a character? I can't think of many; at least, not many "good" movies.

And beyond that, no one is "evil," much less "born evil."

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Yes, but those people are severely mentally ill.

But not any less evil for their actions. Psychological disabilities doesn't excuse what they do nor make it any less severe.
Evil in this case being defined as to kill, main, torture or use other acts of violence and oppression against others. Destructive behavior not sanctioned or accepted by the group. The group being the social circle, community, society, nation ,organisation or whatever.

But I see your point. You've got to be severely broken in the head to not suffer from commiting murder. Even hardened soldiers who kill their enemies will feel something and will have to do whatever they can to motivate what they do, to justify it, so as not to let it get to them.

[meadatron]

Neither the shining heavens nor the burning bells, merely the bulwarks of earth and the mind of men.

If you think that a charming bad guy will desensatize your kids or bend the world to accept evil, how truly little thought you have given this. In reality charismatic evil is littered throughout our world. Better that people realize that just because you can empathize with or even enjoy the antics of an antagonist whose motives are less than altruistic, does not make you complicit or accepting of the acts of malice they may commit.

A lesson every person must learn is that while there are people who generally help and care for those around them, there are also manipulators who wish others to see them as good and likable, that does not make their self serving nature any less diminished. In the end the ability to notice the malefactors in life will allows us to avoid a potentially detrimental situation.

Life contains many deceptions, best not to deceive yourself.

[Shinra1]

If you think evil is born, not made, then why does it matter if children watch movies with evil characters?

At such a young age they are easily influenced by what they're exposed to and at that stage in their mental development their morality is formed by perceiving wrong as bad and right as good so watching movies or reading books where the evil person is made out to be good underneath all the bad actions completely confuses and messes up the young person's morality.

[Noomz]

Cersei is inherently evil.

I enjoy reading her chapters because she's the bad bitch in the GoT universe. I'm not buying her woe is me act because her dad didn't love her as much as her twin or because she was born a woman.

Cersei isn't evil, she's malicious and egotistical as a result of her upbringing, from being part of the political game of backstabbing, and from having a lot of her own secrets to cover up.
She commits evil acts, but so do almost all of the characters in ASOIF.

[zorkuus]

You really mixed it up with that one. Of course, I rather be simple minded and right than be sophisticated and wrong. However, I would say that resorting to pointless posts like this are that of a simple minded person.

This simple minded person does not need to prove a negative.

come meet our landlord. if he isn't evil, he's at least the incarnation of greed

Sounds like a capitalist to me.

At such a young age they are easily influenced by what they're exposed to and at that stage in their mental development their morality is formed by perceiving wrong as bad and right as good so watching movies or reading books where the evil person is made out to be good underneath all the bad actions completely confuses and messes up the young person's morality.

His point went completely over your head. You said people are born evil.