Would you support Mythic Raiding being reduced from 20 players to 15 or 10?

[Sting]

Nope. What's with all the "Let's change Mythic to X" lately? This is the best system they've had in years.

[Bluesftw]

no, keep it as it is. solves all the balancing issues.

[Sinndra]

ive only seen one raid of 7 bosses. not even close to enough for me to judge how i like the group size. ask again after 3-4 more raids have come out. but so far 20 seems appropriate.

if i was gonna vote for any specific size? maybe 15, certainly not 10. but i also dont think there is anything wrong with 20 right now, i still need more time trying it out thought.

[Vestig3]

People say that "Have to recruit more people to go for mythic and its tough " What you think of raiding guilds with 35 people that have to downsize to 20?

[deadman1]

Its easier to gain 10 people than to kick 10 people.

Recruit or merge.

[Rafzor]

Making it any smaller than 20 man you make the problem of every class not being present in the raid group even higher and how one sided one raids CD's are when there are less people and all of their CD's work in the same way, it makes the balancing of fights so hard because the balancing between badly optimised groups is a pain, unless you make the fights just way too easy so everyone can kill it.

But with smaller groups you can't really have fights that yell "this mechanis is handled really well by a resto shamans and spirit link totem" as in really big damage going on so a person that hasn't got as good personal CD's can still survive because there are other people in the raid who take far less damage because of their own strong personal CD's but SLT lets those with weaker CD's still survive.

Or another "this mechanic hits super hard on a single person, but it is predictable so a disc priest is perfect at throwing shields on them" the debuff on Imperator is a perfect example of this, because at higher stacks it starts to hit really hard and it is cast pretty often so can't really have a personal CD up for every single time it gets on you.

You can't have those interesting mechanics because hitting a brick wall on a boss, not because you don't have enough players to fill a 20man roster, but because your guild doesn't have the proper classes you can't kill it before you overgear it by so much you can try to bruteforce it is so frustrating, that the best way to counter it is to keep the raidsize big enough so it is just more likely most specs / utility abilities are covered.

In essence the boss abilities can have bigger impacts and need better/faster reactions, because with 20man instead of 10man it is more expected that someone has the right answer to them, but trying to deal with a hard mechanic with no answer in your roster, would only in the end lead to more cries for nerfs.

[Deleted]

40 would be awesome in my opinion.

[ComputerNerd]

Changing it again would do more harm than good.
It was majorly disruptive for both small and larger guilds alike.

There needs to be a sufficient number to minimise a given class being left out simply because there isn't room.
10 just isn't big enough for that.
Debateable whether 15 or 20 is better, but it certainly would have been unfair to just make it 25 and only disrupting smaller guilds.
20 in my opinion offers more room for choices.

A fixed sized format is hugely important in being able to attribute a fair judgement of difficulty, as the encounters did not scale in the same way between 10-25m nor do they consistently in flex, which again is a good thing for that specific format to prevent roster "break points" to avoid or game the number of certain mechanics.

[yjmark]

I'd like it raised to 25 but will settle for 20.

^^ This. 10-man does not generate the epic feeling that 25-man did. 10-man feels more like a glorified 5-man dungeon, but not a real "raid".

[Airlick]

20 man is good. My guild would be better off with 15, we are still forced to fill every raid with a few lackluster members, but 20-man raiding has plenty advantages.

[Volibear]

People have been saying this for years. If people are leaving--and there is very little empirical evidence to support this--then there is absolutely no basis for believing that changing the raid system/size is going to suddenly cause them to stay. It's almost as asinine as the notion that WoW is dying because there is/isn't flying.


From the beginning I've doubted they would make another MC fight for priests. But making a fight like Brackenspore where you need 3 moss clearers? And raid cooldowns that 10-15man cannot be expected to have? I agree.

Blackrock Foundry says hi.

[Miley]

10 man equal to 25 was nothing but a mistake.

[The One Percent]

20 person is the absolute perfect size. (I wish 40 person was still a thing, but I understand that it's pretty much logistically impossible)

[ComputerNerd]

^^ This. 10-man does not generate the epic feeling that 25-man did. 10-man feels more like a glorified 5-man dungeon, but not a real "raid".

Ignorant and arrogant point of view.
People have been arbitrary calling other raid formats as being inferior and not "real" simply because it is not their preference.
As demonstrated very well by the hatred towards LFR, but acceptance of normal/heroic that the entire argument is just false.
Every format is some arbitrary reduction in the difficulty of mechanics compared to mythic.
Therefore if any format other than mythic is being accepted as "real raiding" then every format is.
Either mythic is the only "real raiding" as that is the only complete experience, or they all are.

10m and 25m raids scaled differently.
Some were more difficult in one format, or the other.
25m wasn't simply more difficult, and neither was 10m.
Therefore they were both equally "real" since that number increase did not ensure that 25m was universally more difficult.

[Deleted]

Just stop it. 25=10 men was the worst thing that ever happened to progress raiding. It took Blizzard long enough to admit their mistake. They won't make the same mistake twice.

[Deleted]

"Keep it as it is on 20 Players"

I always raided 10m. Always. When I found out about the 20m mythic I was annoyed, frustrated... pissed off, really. I was so comfy with my 10m raiding and didn't want to size up to keep doing harder content.
After some sulking I accepted the fact and moved up to 25m from 10m, clearing 14/14 SoO HC (before mythic patch) to go along with the 10m cutting edge achievement and started looking for the future.
Now I'm happy with the 20m size. I loved, loved and loved my 10m to pieces but the fact of the matter is you either adapt or you fall. I've adapted and don't mind the size anymore and actually enjoy it even tho it seemed like something that would be impossible.
I didn't like 25m tho. For me personally 20m is much better, 25m feels like too much. I'm against sizing it up or down since 20m does feel good right now! But who knows, it it would change officially I'd... adapt.

People need to adapt more and toss the foolish dreams of 10m out of the window, the faster you accept you're stuck with 20m mythic the faster you can start working towards it properly and enjoy it. :P It after all IS better balanced and I certainly don't miss having some bosses being faceroll on 25m and harder on 10m or vice versa.

[Schadow]

This is a one-sided poll. Where is the option "more than 20 players"?

Some like it small. And that's okay, totally understandable. But I like it big.

[kamuimac]

Keep it as 20 - anything which will kill of most of mythic guilds and bring mythic closer to being removed from game is good in longer run.

[Angrybathtub]

Personally, I think 15 is the best # for a raiding group, but 20 is fine too.

[FobManX]

20 is the perfect number.