Question about haste proc trinkets

[Deleted]

I'm not sure how to deal with these. For demo Haste > Crit. However I really think that crit proc trinkets are better than haste proc trinkets. Since what do you want to do with procs? Demonbolt.
What does haste do for Demonbolt - almost nothing. What does crit do for Demonbolt - double damage. So I really think that GorenSoul Repository should be better than Darmac's Unstable Talisman. Am I wrong in this?

[Shamran]

Generally speaking, I believe haste procs and haste on-use effects aren't meant as tools to empower your DBs. Well, you can, but as you point out yourself, the benefits are negligable. Also, you don't really plan your Demonbolts around procs, as such. Your Demonbolt usage is primarily based on DF level, DB cooldown, DS charges and on-use effects. Procs are great, but ultimately not what you plan your Demonbolt around - as opposed to Chaos Bolts for Destruction. From my understanding, haste procs and on use effects (like SoN) rather allow you to generate DF faster, but of course, you can't game procs quite as precisely as on-use effects, so...

[Shiennar]

What does haste do for Demonbolt - almost nothing.

Haste does lower the cooldown on demonbolt, which is a slight dps-increase, given that you are able to build fury fast enough.

[Santoisms]

Haste does lower the cooldown on demonbolt, which is a slight dps-increase, given that you are able to build fury fast enough.

With how the tier bonuses in BRF work as well as the optimized gear, it should be more possible to see 800 Fury cycles more frequent.

[Deleted]

i must say that im a bit conflicted myself as to which trinket im going after, the crit proc trink or the haste proc trink, the trinket with the multistrike proc seem pretty mandatory to me due to the sheer amount of multistrike you'll get, so that leaves the haste and crit proc trinks. id want the crit proc for demonbolt spamming as i feel the crit is more needed coz we'll loose a lot of crit when we start getting brf gear, so the crit will most likely overtake haste simply bcoz we have such a small amount of crit. the haste trink is nice for the additional fury generation boost it gives which will ultimately give us more demonbolt cycles and more dmg so i can see the appeal of of that trink as well but then there is also the haste buff which will mean that the haste trink will give you about 24ish% as opposed to the crit trink which will only give 22ish% on the proc, it really feels like one of those "damned if you do and damned of you dont" choices, it just comes down to personal preferences.

also atm, according to simcrafts, crit has taken over haste slightly atleast with demonbolt but that is most likely bcoz we dont have a lot of either atm. with the amount of gear with haste/mastery in brf i think crit will further increase in value compared to haste but that is more of a gut feeling and due to the fact that we will have even less crit than we do now, atleast atm im leaning toward the crit trink over the haste trink based on that notion but that isnt going to stop me trying to get all 3 trinks, just in case the haste 1 does show to be the best option.

[Akakishin]

i must say that im a bit conflicted myself as to which trinket im going after, the crit proc trink or the haste proc trink, the trinket with the multistrike proc seem pretty mandatory to me due to the sheer amount of multistrike you'll get, so that leaves the haste and crit proc trinks. id want the crit proc for demonbolt spamming as i feel the crit is more needed coz we'll loose a lot of crit when we start getting brf gear, so the crit will most likely overtake haste simply bcoz we have such a small amount of crit. the haste trink is nice for the additional fury generation boost it gives which will ultimately give us more demonbolt cycles and more dmg so i can see the appeal of of that trink as well but then there is also the haste buff which will mean that the haste trink will give you about 24ish% as opposed to the crit trink which will only give 22ish% on the proc, it really feels like one of those "damned if you do and damned of you dont" choices, it just comes down to personal preferences.

also atm, according to simcrafts, crit has taken over haste slightly atleast with demonbolt but that is most likely bcoz we dont have a lot of either atm. with the amount of gear with haste/mastery in brf i think crit will further increase in value compared to haste but that is more of a gut feeling and due to the fact that we will have even less crit than we do now, atleast atm im leaning toward the crit trink over the haste trink based on that notion but that isnt going to stop me trying to get all 3 trinks, just in case the haste 1 does show to be the best option.

benefits of a haste buff:
your DB debuff wears off faster
you finish your DB cycle faster and start building DF with spam spells for next cycle
your curr/doom/hog tick faster = generating DF faster for next cycle
For a trinket like SoN if you use it before first DB you'll have somewhat of 12-13sec remaining time casting spams = faster DF build for next cycle

So not just you're doing more dps when you use the said trinket (SoN) but your next cycle comes to play sooner which is also more dps! i don't even need to go to crit's benefits i guess! crit is just so much behind haste (trinket buff wise).

[wein07]

AFAIK, what crits does for demo is 1) Crits on Doom summons Imps which give 50 DF over 15secs. 2) Boost Soulfire's critical damage

While I have not done any Sims, my reasoning...
Issue here is Doom by default ticks Once every 15secs. Goren Soul Repository's Crit proc last 10secs. It is possible the Crit procs does not even line up once with a Doom DoT tick in a fight. I can see however a DB dump during the GSR proc being amazing We just have to pickup the relic and see how it plays in the DB build.

Or has anyone tried it out on the PTR? Thanks

[Deleted]

benefits of a haste buff:
your DB debuff wears off faster
you finish your DB cycle faster and start building DF with spam spells for next cycle
your curr/doom/hog tick faster = generating DF faster for next cycle
For a trinket like SoN if you use it before first DB you'll have somewhat of 12-13sec remaining time casting spams = faster DF build for next cycle

So not just you're doing more dps when you use the said trinket (SoN) but your next cycle comes to play sooner which is also more dps! i don't even need to go to crit's benefits i guess! crit is just so much behind haste (trinket buff wise).

uhm, werent talking about SoN, i was talking about the BRF crit proc trinket vs the BRF Haste proc trinket, ofc i didnt say it directly altho the 22% vs 24% should have given it away as SoN only gives 18ish% and the fact that it is a thread about the BRF trinkets. also i think you're undervalueing crit atm, coz the ratio between crit and haste is so great, and the more haste you have in comparison to crit, the greater value crit will get, so with the gear in BRF i can certainly see crit being more valuable than haste and we will have more than enough haste from the gear alone.

[Akakishin]

uhm, werent talking about SoN, i was talking about the BRF crit proc trinket vs the BRF Haste proc trinket, ofc i didnt say it directly altho the 22% vs 24% should have given it away as SoN only gives 18ish% and the fact that it is a thread about the BRF trinkets. also i think you're undervalueing crit atm, coz the ratio between crit and haste is so great, and the more haste you have in comparison to crit, the greater value crit will get, so with the gear in BRF i can certainly see crit being more valuable than haste and we will have more than enough haste from the gear alone.

The haste benefits i mentioned stays the same, the effect is still haste right? so all those happen if you have the proc applying on any of them! it was just an example of what happens if its in the best time but still the outcome of a haste proc vs crit proc is still the same.
And about haste value, we should see, but that's something I have doubts. any math supports your idea that having faster cycles becomes irrelevant in some haste ratings?

[Deleted]

the values of various stats has always fluctuated up and down, generally, stats like crit and haste for locks tends to have their value dependent on how balanced those stats are in relation to each other, so if you have very low crit and very high haste, then crit will generally be worth more than haste, the value of stats in particular has always been like this, ofc the reverse is also true, the more crit you get, the higher value haste will get, which is why you should go after a high enough amount of crit to make the value of haste better than crit. a simple simcraft supports my claim well atleast for my ilvl 678 gear.