Heartbroken over a Palestinian woman

[Gaidax]

3 years ago I was in a similar situation, minus the different customs part but with other difficulties (including your weak job and weak immediate prospects situation, etc etc).

I did go for it, because I simply said to myself "this is now or never" and it was really hard and still is hard, but now I am with the girl for 2 and half years stable and things are getting better, I have better job, she improved as well. We are thinking of marriage sometime in not so soon future, but working towards that goal while trying to build our life.

i understand the whole marriage predicament, but in my opinion, if you are truly serious you need to act. A girl needs a MAN, not some insecure wimp. I am pretty sure she is going cold because you simply drag her too much through all the insecurity thing, think like her for a moment - she might love you, but she can clearly see you are insecure and unreliable - you come and go, you say sweet stuff, but you do not really act at all - a girl is insecure creature really, she wants a person who is steady in his actions and desires - rock solid, as in "Yes, I might not be amazing choice now, but this is real and I want to put a ring on you, let's work together, rent and move to our apartment withing x time together, will be hard but we will make it. I am not a rich guy but I will do everything I can to protect you".

I am pretty sure she does not want you to put a ring on her right away, but she wants a reliable man - as you are now you are not - FIX IT.

Act or you will regret your whole life you did not act. Tell her damn straight that you are in, then ask her opinion how you should best arrange visit to parents and relatives, hear them out - they won't eat you, they might be mean, but it's their job to make sure their daughter's future husband is a real deal.

As for you, if you are ready to do the above for her - do it. But be real, don't drag her along just for the sake of this, if you commit - you commit to the end!

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As for me, I am from Middle East, although from the other side of the fence, but in the end, above money, people in the Middle East respect power, honor and determination. If you are strong, reliable and have a vision of what you want to do in future, the fact that you are not shitting money won't be a real issue.

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Also... all this heartbroken shit... cut it out, be a man! Women like men, not sensitive pussies.

[Pull My Finger]

Yeah. Be a man! Grow a beard! Burp loudly! Don't flush the toilet! And be fuckin' reliable.

[StreetHydrant]

What are the actual consequences of the old farts not approving the relationship? I mean it's obvious that both of you guys are forcing yourself to something that's completely against your feelings because old morons and millenia old dogmas expect it for no reason.

I don't fully know. I know all her sisters and mother knew about her ex, who hadn't been good to her, and her father found out eventually. He made sure they knew where she was and who she was with for an extended period of time. Her sisters know about me.

[StreetHydrant]

3 years ago I was in a similar situation, minus the different customs part but with other difficulties (including your weak job and weak immediate prospects situation, etc etc).

I did go for it, because I simply said to myself "this is now or never" and it was really hard and still is hard, but now I am with the girl for 2 and half years stable and things are getting better, I have better job, she improved as well. We are thinking of marriage sometime in not so soon future, but working towards that goal while trying to build our life.

i understand the whole marriage predicament, but in my opinion, if you are truly serious you need to act. A girl needs a MAN, not some insecure wimp. I am pretty sure she is going cold because you simply drag her too much through all the insecurity thing, think like her for a moment - she might love you, but she can clearly see you are insecure and unreliable - you come and go, you say sweet stuff, but you do not really act at all - a girl is insecure creature really, she wants a person who is steady in his actions and desires - rock solid, as in "Yes, I might not be amazing choice now, but this is real and I want to put a ring on you, let's work together, rent and move to our apartment withing x time together, will be hard but we will make it. I am not a rich guy but I will do everything I can to protect you".

I am pretty sure she does not want you to put a ring on her right away, but she wants a reliable man - as you are now you are not - FIX IT.

Act or you will regret your whole life you did not act. Tell her damn straight that you are in, then ask her opinion how you should best arrange visit to parents and relatives, hear them out - they won't eat you, they might be mean, but it's their job to make sure their daughter's future husband is a real deal.

As for you, if you are ready to do the above for her - do it. But be real, don't drag her along just for the sake of this, if you commit - you commit to the end!

------------

As for me, I am from Middle East, although from the other side of the fence, but in the end, above money, people in the Middle East respect power, honor and determination. If you are strong, reliable and have a vision of what you want to do in future, the fact that you are not shitting money won't be a real issue.

------------

Also... all this heartbroken shit... cut it out, be a man! Women like men, not sensitive pussies.

She knows. She knows she was the reason I was going to pick my life up and start a career. She knows it was for her. She knows I want to marry her. She's asked me, would you convert and marry me, and I've said yes, without hesitation.

- - - Updated - - -

This music played while I was reading the OP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwvVhXItl1w

There is a reason why there are so many stories of handsome knights fighting dragons to be with a princess.
Your dragon seems to be a cultural cliff. Are you a knight though?

Chose to keep it real, put my heart out there, prepared for insults. Doesn't bother me at all. Your analogy works great btw, I am the knight. I just wish she would put as much trust in our relationship as I do. She seems scared of crossing her family, and I understand her.

[Gaidax]

She knows. She knows she was the reason I was going to pick my life up and start a career. She knows it was for her. She knows I want to marry her. She's asked me, would you convert and marry me, and I've said yes, without hesitation.

But you do not do anything about the situation... how the fact that she knows helps?

Meet her and discuss this to the details... Give her a roadmap of what you actually WILL do this year and next year for her... Talk about what is the issue, tell her you WILL marry her in time, even define what this time means - 3 years? 5 years?

Heck go meet her parents and relatives, make things clear.

Act.

[Pull My Finger]

I don't fully know. I know all her sisters and mother knew about her ex, who hadn't been good to her, and her father found out eventually. He made sure they knew where she was and who she was with for an extended period of time. Her sisters know about me.

It really is like the novels and movies, isn't it. A young love beyond boundaries, met with discouragement by cowardly old people and millenia old dogmas.

The cultural thing makes it difficult. If this whole orthodox aspect wasn't there, I wouldn't even think about some parents' concerns. Sometimes people are just boneheaded. Sometimes one has to simply put people through something until they learn to accept it. Parents aren't used to accepting things. They eventually have to learn it once their kids grow up into adults and start making own decisions. People learn to accept things when they realize that they have to, because it ain't gonna change just because they scream and shout. It's the same thing that babies have to learn. As a parent, you might have to learn it a second time. Sometimes it's a bumpy road, and people end up not talking to each other for years, or constantly arguing etc.

But eventually, there comes the day when even a stubborn parent has to realize: OK, this is how it is. That's the parents' part of growing up. I had to put my parents through a lot of that stuff. We argued endlessly, then we almost didn't talk for a few years, then I was out of the country for some time. But eventually, they had to realize: he's doing his thing, there's no amount of disapproving, criticizing, cursing, insulting or crying and sulking that could change that.

That's how I'd "normally" see it. But if your friend has to fear punishment, isolation, perhaps even violence, it makes it a whole different matter, and one has to carefully think about what options there are.

[StreetHydrant]

But you do not do anything about the situation... how the fact that she knows helps?

Meet her and discuss this to the details... Give her a roadmap of what you actually WILL do this year and next year for her... Talk about what is the issue, tell her you WILL marry her in time, even define what this time means - 3 years? 5 years?

Heck go meet her parents and relatives, make things clear.

Act.

You're right, I have to sit down and talk with her... thoroughly

[Krothar]

How long have you actually been together? You mention a month or two passing, but were you actually together all that long? Not that I'm saying that should have anything to do with how you feel, but to ask for her fathers permission to marry her after a few months is kinda crazy.

I know that your reasoning is along the lines of "They arrange this stuff without ever meeting". Whilst her father would appreciate you understand their culture (And let me be clear, you'd best be going into this knowing full well how to do it) they also know our culture, and that a good portion of the world doesn't do things their way, so he could very well take it the wrong way that you've tried.

I think before you do anything crazy, you need to be 100% that this girl actually wants to be with you because what you're thinking of doing will be heartbreaking if it turns out you were wrong.

[StreetHydrant]

It really is like the novels and movies, isn't it. A young love beyond boundaries, met with discouragement by cowardly old people and millenia old dogmas.

The cultural thing makes it difficult. If this whole orthodox aspect wasn't there, I wouldn't even think about some parents' concerns. Sometimes people are just boneheaded. Sometimes one has to simply put people through something until they learn to accept it. Parents aren't used to accepting things. They eventually have to learn it once their kids grow up into adults and start making own decisions. People learn to accept things when they realize that they have to, because it ain't gonna change just because they scream and shout. It's the same thing that babies have to learn. As a parent, you might have to learn it a second time. Sometimes it's a bumpy road, and people end up not talking to each other for years, or constantly arguing etc.

But eventually, there comes the day when even a stubborn parent has to realize: OK, this is how it is. That's the parents' part of growing up. I had to put my parents through a lot of that stuff. We argued endlessly, then we almost didn't talk for a few years, then I was out of the country for some time. But eventually, they had to realize: he's doing his thing, there's no amount of disapproving, criticizing, cursing, insulting or crying and sulking that could change that.

That's how I'd "normally" see it. But if your friend has to fear punishment, isolation, perhaps even violence, it makes it a whole different matter, and one has to carefully think about what options there are.

I don't think there's fear of isolation or violence. It's more a fear of disappointment. She's an adult and they respect that in their own way. I've tried getting a full answer about this from her, but I still haven't.

- - - Updated - - -

How long have you actually been together? You mention a month or two passing, but were you actually together all that long? Not that I'm saying that should have anything to do with how you feel, but to ask for her fathers permission to marry her after a few months is kinda crazy.

I know that your reasoning is along the lines of "They arrange this stuff without ever meeting". Whilst her father would appreciate you understand their culture (And let me be clear, you'd best be going into this knowing full well how to do it) they also know our culture, and that a good portion of the world doesn't do things their way, so he could very well take it the wrong way that you've tried.

I think before you do anything crazy, you need to be 100% that this girl actually wants to be with you because what you're thinking of doing will be heartbreaking if it turns out you were wrong.

It's crazy to me too, but that's how it is. If I want her, I have to show her, I have to sit down and tell her directly how things are going to happen. It's like Gaidax is saying; I have to act. If she's still not sure, then that's on her, then it's her choice. I don't think she'll allow me to meet her family just yet. Her sister kept it a secret for three years with her man, and during that time she "trained" him and taught him their ways. She would never let me go in there unprepared. The whole reason it ended was because she didn't want to hold onto me for that amount of time, in case we got a "no".

[Deleted]

What are the actual consequences of the old farts not approving the relationship? I mean it's obvious that both of you guys are forcing yourself to something that's completely against your feelings because old morons and millenia old dogmas expect it for no reason.

Something like honor killings for example? It's pretty popular around here. I had a knife shoved in my face also once by the brother of a girl whom I was good friends with and whom till then used to be a friend of mine because he thought we might be more than good friends.

On topic. To these people saying "respect her culture", nice to see that you accept xenophobic nationalistic and religious reasons for doing such things from certain groups when you'd cry foul and throw a tantrum if other people would do the same. Imagine a Norwegian father acting like this and trying to break his daughter and a palestinian guy up. You'd guys cry racism and other nice things.

[Gaidax]

You're right, I have to sit down and talk with her... thoroughly

Yup, all cards on the table, dude.

One shot thing, think everything through and discuss everything through - what you expect will happen in the next 2-3 years time if she goes with you. Reassure her it's serious and this is going to the marriage, ask her how to deal with relatives (meeting at their house, restaurant, whatever - who to meet - parents/brothers, how to do it best) AND deal with them - there will be tough questions, hold your ground.

If she wants you to go through some boot camp for their customs - go for it with her assistance (although do not fake it, do not lose your identity!)

[Krothar]

I suppose there are other things to consider too,

If things do go well with her, and you two hash out a plan for approaching her father, you need to be ready for some difficult questions.

They'll likely ask you your beliefs, and saying you don't have any might even be as bad as saying you believe X,Y or Z. There's even a chance he might ask if you'd be willing to convert for her. Even this is a loaded one, as he might actually want you to convert, or be disappointed that you'd be willing to throw away your current beliefs (If you have any)

[THE Bigzoman]

Things like this can be hard OP. But you realistically only have two opitions here.

You can

1. Get out of this emotional game with her, assert what you want, and hope for the best. Incoming cliche "Be a man" here, but if she is a devout muslim, then theres a chance she subscribes to this shit anyway. I had a similar situation but her family was classist more than anything, as she came from a six figure income home and I come from something that is barely middle class. You can't continue to toy around with this shit. Go all out. Do or die. Everything or nothing.

2. You can forget about her and begin the long road of recovery. Some nights will be hard. Some nights you will be sad. It doesn't matter if there's plenty of fish in the sea, you want THAT ONE RIGHT THERE. But there is a way for you to speed up the recovery progress. You can,

1. Get laid by other women.
2. Occupy yourself with something (start working out, work more often, getting a hobby)

Both in conjunction will help you most. Out of sight, out of mind.



Just don't "go your own way" and you'll be aight.

[Kuntantee]

The culture of Muslims is quite diverse. You probably need the advise of a Palestinian.

but a tip for you, if she and her family is religious, just let it go.

[Pull My Finger]

Something like honor killings for example? It's pretty popular around here. I had a knife shoved in my face also once by the brother of a girl whom I was good friends with and whom till then used to be a friend of mine because he thought we might be more than good friends.

That's why I'm asking. It depends on to what extremes people are willing to take their ideas of tradition and "good conduct". If they're only gonna be "disappointed", well screw them, but it's a different matter if someone's gonna end up being beaten up, stoned or mutilated or something like that.

[THE Bigzoman]

This music played while I was reading the OP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwvVhXItl1w

There is a reason why there are so many stories of handsome knights fighting dragons to be with a princess.
Your dragon seems to be a cultural cliff. Are you a knight though?

IDK why, but this came to mind for some reason as I was reading.

[Mirishka]

@ greymane - old guy in a hoodie with sunglasses?

Roughly translated, it means: "I'm too immature to offer anything substantial or helpful, therefore I'll post an image and try to be cool and funny."

@Street,

I read your entire post, without skimming or skipping. I feel for you, as I was once in a similar situation. Not entirely the same, but similar enough that I sympathize.

If she's hellbent on respecting his wishes, your best bet is try and talk to her father. Be respectful, even if you don't feel he is. If you come across as hotheaded, aggressive, etc... you're just going to make the situation worse, for everyone involved.

Hope for the best outcome, but prepare yourself for the possibility that this man will not accept you. Their religion is a bit insular, even at its best (and there are many wonderful people who practice it, despite the stereotypes), so you need to be able to respect those beliefs. Hopefully he is an open-minded man, but if he is not... don't risk hurting her relationship with her family by pressing the issue. You'll push her away by doing that.

Having said that, I wish the best for you both.

[Deleted]

Chin up mate, at least you didn't foolishly let go of your soulmate and ended up miserable for 8 months.
Life is full of crap like this, and it might not be the last time it happens.

The culture of Muslims is quite diverse. You probably need the advise of a Palestinian.

but a tip for you, if she and her family is religious, just let it go.

Worst advice ever to give to a person, just like her father didn't approve of non religious suitors. People need to stop building artificial barriers and standards for eachother and just seize the moment.
Be with whoever you want to be and actually try to make things work despite your differences. If you can manage that then 90% of your relationships will thrive.

[Independent voter]

Country music is the only music that speaks to this.

[Laraven]

There is nothing anyone here can tell you that will make you feel better or change how you feel.

There is only 3 options. All of which you will have to pro and con out yourself. The first being run away with her if you both so desire to be together, 2. Try to reason with her family for their blessing, 3. Move on.

The only advice I have to give you is know that feeling "in love" and being with that person is only a small part of your future. Think about the children that could be born into this relationship. Think about if you do alienate her from her family and things don't work out. You can walk away, she could possible never return home leaving her all alone. Be unselfish in your reasoning If you truly care about her give her a chance to move on as that is the choice she made. If she comes back without your interference then so be it.