Hi bros - Advices on Subtely rogue Raids

[Deleted]

Hi bros !

I would like to get some advice in order to improve my rogue playing and gearing.
I would prefer play as subtely becasue i found that spec pretty interesting in PVE raid and the gear which drops in Blackrock seems to be perfect for this. In addition it allow to play in combat for cleaving mobs in needs.

But i have a problem because all of my stuff cames from Highmaul nm/hm and even if i enchants all my stuff in multistrike, the amount is quite low here my complete spreadsheet : || shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/eu/kaelthas/onimaru/ ||.

Here in sample if someone doesnt want to follow the link :

Gear Stats :
Agility 2453 / Crit 743 / Haste 931 /Mastery 579 / Multistrike 439 / Stamina 3242 / Versatility 658

Even if a prefer play sub/combat, i'm not completely against chaning spec if it may help my team but as i could see Blackrock will be good for sub.

Here one of the poorest log i got from HM Imperator : || warcraftlogs.com/reports/XMD9wvj7TPZL3dNt#type=damage-done || if the problem isnt in spec, maybe i do things i musnt because even i've done only three time imperator, i didnt not have too much moments whil i wasnt dpsing and shadow dance were used very often (i think i have to progress on this becasue sometime i didnt do that asap).

If you accept helping me i could make test on LFR and post the logs in order to see if your advices worked.

Have a nice day.
John

[Deleted]

1. Rupture at 76% is too low - it should be almost 100%. Rupture is your first prio when spending 5cp. You can clip rupt at 30% (so 7.2 seconds).
2. You need to make sure everytime you cast Shadow Reflection you're using a 5cp rupture within the 8 seconds.
3. You missed out on 5 shadow dances.
4. Missed 2 Shadow reflections.
5. Make sure you're using your Shadow Reflection with your Shadow Dance. You should line these CDs up.
6. Missed 1-2 Vanishes.
7. Preparation wasn't used.
8. Find Weakness uptime wasn't maximised that well. You need to make sure you use vanish after Find Weakness to refresh it, using vanish midway through a find weakness phase is a waste.
9. Only use Hemorrhage outside of Find Weakness.
10. You're capping energy way too much, even for a fight like imperator this shouldn't be happening as much as it is for you. When pooling for Shadow Dance and Vanish (with Subterfuge) you don't need to cap, pooling to around ~80 for Vanish and ~90 for ShD is decent.

[Deleted]

Really thanks for all these informations you gave me, i will make 2 or 3 test this evening and i hope this will be better.

I just have 3* questions :
First the icy veins opening rotation is

3 seconds before the pull, cast Premeditation +Slice and Dice.
1 second before the pull, get in Stealth and use your Draenic Agility Potion.
Cast Garrote.
Cast Shadow Reflection and use on-use trinkets and racials at the same time.
Cast Ambush (if Subterfuge is talented).
Apply Rupture.
Cast Shadow Dance
Spam Ambush and cast Eviscerate whenever you reach 5 Combo Points.
Start the regular rotation.

Garrot is the better option as opener or should i have to ambush ? Why here SR and Shad Dance arent used at same time, is it to optimize find weakness from first stealth ?

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Just to be sure in your 2. You need to make sure everytime you cast Shadow Reflection you're using a 5cp rupture within the 8 seconds. / You say that i have to cast almost one 5cp rupture asap in SR and after this spam backstab/ambush evicerate, i udnerstood well?
Because some guide says that the must is to avoid casting rupture during Shadow dance. SO when i have Shad dance + SR and S&D +rupture rolling do i have to refresh 5cp rupture even if the proc will not fade during the shad dance ? What is the priority in SR+SD ? Ambush > Evicerate 5cp > (reapply rupture to get the buff if this one is about to fade).


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How do you use FoK and Crimson Tempest in last phase ? Keep buff on and spaming FoK Crimson when 5cp ?

Thanks a lot !



John

[Deleted]

Try you premed 10seconds before pull this way you get it back sooner. I believe the whole garrotte opener is to apply veins at a lower cost but if you don't have subterfuge you lose out on an ambush.
My opener consist of :
Premed 10sec before pull
Pre pot slice and dice
Ambush
Hemo
SR
Rupture
SD
Ambush /eviscerate spam then normal rotation


When in SD spam ambush /eviscerate and only cast rupture if it's going to run out before SD ends.

Not 100% sure for your last part although personally I spam Fok , cast crimson tempest to apply the dot to all. Carry on spamming FoK and use my combo points on eviscerate on imp. This may be completely wrong but that what's i do lol, CD wise just use SR

[KiwifruitOCE]

For last phase imp, you'd get more dps on your meters by just spamming FoK plus CT at 5 cp.

But its generally better to keep CT debuff up and use FoK plus eviscerate at 5 cp. Reason being that imperator is the priority target and for most groups progressing on imp, they need to kill him asap in phase 4.

It depends if your tanks are dying due to too many adds or raid is dying due to fight going on too long.

[Deleted]

Ok thanks !

So in Shadow reflection its important to cast a rupture but in shadow dance the best is to prepare this before and not having to recast it until the end of Shadow dance.
When opening like you say should i have to wait the end of the first find weakness in order to do at last second Sr / rupture 5cp / shadow dance (in order to re apply find weakness) ... in order to optimize this ?

Why does casting 5 cp rupture is that important on a shadow reflection ? The clone does cast it too dans it is seen by the boss like 2 bleeds of 24sec even if the clone disapear before the end of his bleed ?

Thanks a lot for your attention.

[Deleted]

If you have procs & buffs going off at start (trinkets, ring, enchants, BL) dont delay SR+SD

yes the clone casts it, and it keeps on running after it supposedly dropped off

Rupture is always prio, even during dance. Preparing for a dance by having enough s&d & rupture is cool, but you dont want to delay dancing by too much and with some rng sinister calling proccs chances are you might have to refresh it during a dance, which is fine.

[Aceydubs]

5. Make sure you're using your Shadow Reflection with your Shadow Dance. You should line these CDs up.

You were given some amazing log analysis by Norgaard. I would like to add, in case you didn't know, two line these cool downs up but don't use a macro for it. Use shot a reflection, then five combo point rupture then shadow dance. I didn't look at the log and since it wasn't mentioned that you were doing this correctly I assume you we're doing it right, but for anyone else who uses this thread to enhance their sub knowledge there is my singular protip.

[Defekter]

So we're supposed to be keeping Hemo up 100% of the time?

[KiwifruitOCE]

So we're supposed to be keeping Hemo up 100% of the time?

If you feel like it.

A lot of people don't bother, its a very minor increase in dps last I heard.

[Deleted]

Really thanks both of you for your advices.

Just to say i'm not the kind of people 'asking just to know' and so i'm training hard in LFR in order to improve this ! i hope i'll could should you better result soon ! (i grown from 16.5dps to 18.5 dps for now ilvl 656)