Mike Rowe's opinion on minimum wage.

[The Oblivion]

Funny how he preaches about opportunity and learning skills or earning degrees, and says nothing about how ridiculously expensive college and trade schools are. Either they need to have their costs lowered dramatically, or the wage of standard jobs needs to be increased.

never once said get a degree, in fact, id recommend against it if this is your situation. its not even closed to needed. i make well above what we are talking about at 25 with no degree. because i work hard and do good. i got my first job a macys, did i stay there? no because i wanted better for myself. i kept looking for jobs and i got into banking and moved up, i have doubled my own pay every year since i became employed. you know why? its not because i work for a good company, its not because im incredible at everything. its because i dont become complacent, i take a new job and CONTINUE looking for a better one, i will NOT stay in 1 place and i use where i am to develop more skills and become more desirable. i was hired at$11 an hour as a part time teller at 18. at 25 i have a house, a wife, 3 cars, and i take my hawaii vacations. anyone could do this. i have helped my friends do this.

there is a difference between min wage and living wage. as there should be. $20 an hour is a mortgage loan officer at a bank, you are telling me jimmy should make that waving a cash for gold sign on a street corner. seems reasonable. no need to work hard now, just free money for doing something a grade schooler could do.

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So in essence you're saying "raise the minimum wage?"

Because you said "go get a job somewhere with a higher wage." Why not just raise the minimum wage, then? Is McDonald's "Financially hurting" to raise salaries?

mcdonalds is a 0 skill job, you deserve to get paid for the 0 skilled person you are, or if you have skills, go find a job to use them. otherwise just admit you are useless and have no skills, and you know what that is called? being a fuck up. sorry, but it has to be someone. grind your fuck up self out of the hole you dug or lie there and wither away, its all on you.

[Dhurn]

You keep putting the cart before the horse... You can't work your way up, if you don't get paid enouph to live... You can't gain skill, because you don't get paid enouph to live... If there reality was that there are plenty of no skill jobs paying a living wage, there wouldn't be anyone making the current minimum wage...

I'm not sure you understand... All unemployment is voluntary, and all individuals are responsible for their current economic situation based on their choices and preferences. All hail the mighty lord, Neoclassimus.

[stabetha]

Okay they try to get a better job. They don't have any nice clothes because they are poor so no higher up places will not hire them. Also since they're working at mcdonalds they don't have a place to live and probably smell. So basically they're screwed unless they have someone willing to help them.

you can get nice clothes at thrift stores.

[Jinnobi]

I am fond of Mike Rowe, and I agree with him on a lot of issues. This isn't one of them. I did notice, however, that he shied away from a hard answer - I respect that in the context of this subject.

More to the point: if minimum wage isn't enough to support the bare minimum of life necessities (~2k calories of healthy food, ~1 suit of clothing per day, reasonable transportation, etc) then it's too low. Period. Yes, there will be arguing over every single detail of what constitutes "reasonable." Yes, it's just the Loki's Wager fallacy ad nauseum. But ultimately, everyone gets the point. If your wage doesn't make it possible to meet every single life necessity at a minimum level, it's too low. The end.

[The Oblivion]

You keep putting the cart before the horse... You can't work your way up, if you don't get paid enouph to live... You can't gain skill, because you don't get paid enouph to live... If there reality was that there are plenty of no skill jobs paying a living wage, there wouldn't be anyone making the current minimum wage...

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There are no where near the amount of entry level jobs paying a living wage to cover everyone on a minimum wage... He is making absurd assumptions...

so what you are saying is this person currently HAS NO SKILLS, NO EDUCATION, AND IS NOT 16. wow, what did they do with there life? seems like they earned where they are. you get what you deserve in this world. think you deserve more? go get it and stop fucking begging for the govt to give it to you for being useless and skill-less.

[Jinnobi]

I am fond of Mike Rowe, and I agree with him on a lot of issues. This isn't one of them. I did notice, however, that he shied away from a hard answer - I respect that in the context of this subject.

More to the point: if minimum wage isn't enough to support the bare minimum of life necessities (~2k calories of healthy food, ~1 suit of clothing per weekday, reasonable transportation, etc) then it's too low. Period. Yes, there will be arguing over every single detail of what constitutes "reasonable." Yes, it's just the Loki's Wager fallacy ad nauseum. But ultimately, everyone gets the point. If your wage doesn't make it possible to meet every single life necessity at the minimum reasonable level, it's too low. The end.

[The Oblivion]

I am fond of Mike Rowe, and I agree with him on a lot of issues. This isn't one of them. I did notice, however, that he shied away from a hard answer - I respect that in the context of this subject.

More to the point: if minimum wage isn't enough to support the bare minimum of life necessities (~2k calories of healthy food, ~1 suit of clothing per day, reasonable transportation, etc) then it's too low. Period. Yes, there will be arguing over every single detail of what constitutes "reasonable." Yes, it's just the Loki's Wager fallacy ad nauseum. But ultimately, everyone gets the point. If your wage doesn't make it possible to meet every single life necessity at a minimum level, it's too low. The end.

agreed. you should be able to have a tiny roof to stay dry, eat, drink, and get to work. $20/hour is double what is needed to achieve that.

[Dhurn]

agreed. you should be able to have a tiny roof to stay dry, eat, drink, and get to work. $20/hour is double what is needed to achieve that.

So you agree the minimum wage should be raised to $10'then?

[The Oblivion]

I love this site. It's definitely a gaming site where people think they live in fantasy land, instead of reality. I'm glad this mentality isn't the majority. At least here in America. I love my money, and I make a shit ton of it because I work hard, busted my ass to make it to a solid living. If you want it bad enough you can achieve it. I'm proof of it.

fuck i could marry you. this place gives intelligent people cancer when they read some of this fantasyland hippie handout dribble.

[truckboattruck]

if you dont like how much any specific business is willing to pay you
dont accept the job
or just start your own business and make your own money
or get a second job
or reduce the cost of your living

there are many ways to get by better
NO ONE is entitled to what ever the hell they want.....you have to the worth the money

and some random dumbass that has just started a new job flipping burgers (poorly at that),
does not deserve 10 fucking dollars an hour

[Itisamuh]

never once said get a degree, in fact, id recommend against it if this is your situation. its not even closed to needed. i make well above what we are talking about at 25 with no degree. because i work hard and do good. i got my first job a macys, did i stay there? no because i wanted better for myself. i kept looking for jobs and i got into banking and moved up, i have doubled my own pay every year since i became employed. you know why? its not because i work for a good company, its not because im incredible at everything. its because i dont become complacent, i take a new job and CONTINUE looking for a better one, i will NOT stay in 1 place and i use where i am to develop more skills and become more desirable. i was hired at$11 an hour as a part time teller at 18. at 25 i have a house, a wife, 3 cars, and i take my hawaii vacations. anyone could do this. i have helped my friends do this.

there is a difference between min wage and living wage. as there should be. $20 an hour is a mortgage loan officer at a bank, you are telling me jimmy should make that waving a cash for gold sign on a street corner. seems reasonable. no need to work hard now, just free money for doing something a grade schooler could do.

And that's very nice, but not everyone's in a position to have those things. I'm in an area with a horrible job market, and don't have the means to move even if I'd wanted to. There's pretty much only one good job in the area that doesn't require college, and I've been trying to get on there for years. Sure I make more than minimum wage but it's not enough to live on, and most low end jobs won't even give full time cause they don't want to pay benefits.

And for the record I didn't say a thing about thinking minimum wage should be as high as you're saying. I'd rather the expenses of schools and training went down so that it wasn't such a financial burden to gain skills.

[stabetha]

I'm not sure you understand... All unemployment is voluntary, and all individuals are responsible for their current economic situation based on their choices and preferences. All hail the mighty lord, Neoclassimus.

think really hard what the world would be like if people weren't responsible for their choices or accountable for the actions.

[The Oblivion]

So you agree the minimum wage should be raised to $10'then?

i do believe that would be a reasonable amount. i know for a fact i could live off of that and my existence would not be sparse. do i think its NEEDED? nope, its not hard to make that now. not in the slightest. but its not something unrealistic. what i think we really need, is to maintain the current minmum wage and implement a merit system up to the $10 hour based off hours worked. so jimmy the 16 year old isnt getting the same as bob the 40 year old on hard time and the employer isnt paying through their teeth for every single menial employee.

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And that's very nice, but not everyone's in a position to have those things. I'm in an area with a horrible job market, and don't have the means to move even if I'd wanted to. There's pretty much only one good job in the area that doesn't require college, and I've been trying to get on there for years. Sure I make more than minimum wage but it's not enough to live on, and most low end jobs won't even give full time cause they don't want to pay benefits.

And for the record I didn't say a thing about thinking minimum wage should be as high as you're saying. I'd rather the expenses of schools and training went down so that it wasn't such a financial burden to gain skills.

if i offered you a job right now at $20 an hour, full time and benefits, and can promise an apt for $700 or less a month, would you take it if it meant moving?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Not sure why anyone would expect Mike Rowe to have the answer for any economic questions.

Mike Rowe makes 10 million dollars a year. How many "Dirty Jobs" do you think pay like that?

[Dhurn]

think really hard what the world would be like if people weren't responsible for their choices or accountable for the actions.

I'm not trying to make the argument that people shouldn't be responsible for their actions. Neoclassical theory is just ridiculous in that it discounts so many societal factors and essentially places all the responsibility on the worker for their current economic situation. It's a nice fantasy, but the reality is a little more complex.

[Jinnobi]

if you dont like how much any specific business is willing to pay you
dont accept the job
or just start your own business and make your own money
or get a second job
or reduce the cost of your living

Spoken like a true college freshman.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Here's another perspective on raising minimum wage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8

[Barnabas]

Not sure why anyone would expect Mike Rowe to have the answer for any economic questions.

Mike Rowe makes 10 million dollars a year. How many "Dirty Jobs" do you think pay like that?

Well he could've stayed at his first job he mentioned and got replaced by a dvd player. He wouldn't be making shit right now. He left that job and moved on to make millions. Become excited and inspired to find better opportunities.

[The Oblivion]

Spoken like a true college freshman.

spoken like an adult. the fuck? the people asking for handouts are the freshman hipsters who think they deserve more along with the complacent lazy assholes who blame others and not themselves for being unable to sustain their pitiful skill/drive free existence

[Jinnobi]

I can imagine having two children and no job, only to turn down a job because I didn't like how low the wage was. What are my kids going to do, eat their clothes?
Or yeah, I'm going to start my own business. News flash: that takes time. Time I don't have right now, because I have rent and kids and food and gas and bills to buy and pay. Now, not later.
Or hey I can get a second job, because the kids at home can spend 10 minutes at the end of an exhausted day with their father 6 nights a week -- but hey they have Sunday if they're not sick or I'm not sick or they aren't spending time with their friends or have a school project or whatever else life throws their / my way.
Or we can reduce the cost of their PB&J feasts by replacing them with ramen noodles, as their immune systems falter.

So to reiterate: spoken like a true college freshman. All idealism and facts, no perspective or life experience. His oh-so-simple list of options falls flat when encountered with the nuances of reality; something he has obviously experienced primarily from the comfort of his parents sofa. Unlike someone who is chiefly concerned with buying video games and his next summer fuck, I don't have the luxury of discarding a job because I don't like how low the pay is. If nothing else, it must be kept until a better opportunity comes along. And that's his most reasonable suggestion - the others, such as establishing your own business, are just so laughably absurd in the context of most people's lives that I can't help but feel secondhand embarrassment over that cringe-worthy suggestion. Sure, starting your own business is a great idea. My mother and I started one ourselves and it's been 13 years running. But that took a lot of time and effort and surplus money. Read: surplus money. You can't start a business with hungry kids and rent, when you're choosing two between rent, food or heat.

As I said, minimum wage should cover the bare essentials of living at a reasonable level. If it doesn't, there's something wrong with the system in place. Of course this applies to one person per job - when kids are factored in, people are going to struggle but there is government aid established for people who need it. Like a single father with two kids.