Help with Sub

[Rosvall]

If I use a macro with ambush and backstab in it, could this be causing me to cast way to many backstabs? I'm struggelig a bit with my sub damage aswell and my backstab count seems way to high compared to my ambush count. I currently deal more on single target with sin than sub.

Let us see the macro, and we can more easily debug it for you.
Alternatively, go to a dummy. Vanish and spam macro with subterfuge, what happens? Dance and spam macro, what happens?

[Fuuma]

I'm currently at work so I can't link it but I believe im using the one from Noxe's sub guide. stance 1-3 ambush then backstab last. I will test it on the dummy to see what is happening when I get home tonight. It might also be me being bad at pooling but I have the 2 set bonus so i'm not pooling that much anymore since the 60 energy spike helps with it.

[Deleted]

I'm currently at work so I can't link it but I believe im using the one from Noxe's sub guide. stance 1-3 ambush then backstab last. I will test it on the dummy to see what is happening when I get home tonight. It might also be me being bad at pooling but I have the 2 set bonus so i'm not pooling that much anymore since the 60 energy spike helps with it.

During the first week of BRF I observed that doing Dance during subterfuge messed up the stance macro.
I simply put in /cancelaura Subterfuge in my dance macro to avoid the issue.

/noob

[Fuuma]

Im not using a macro for dance but subterfuge might be causing problems anyway? After looking at some of your logs Rosvall, I should probably stop using hemo at all aswell. I've been throwing it in there aswell, but it might be hurting more than its helping.

[Rosvall]

Im not using a macro for dance but subterfuge might be causing problems anyway? After looking at some of your logs Rosvall, I should probably stop using hemo at all aswell. I've been throwing it in there aswell, but it might be hurting more than its helping.

The reason for low hemo uptime is that the hemo dot doesn't scale up with find weakness. So preferably you do only want to have hemo ticking when FW is down.
There's a few other instances you want to hemo: If you can feel that your rupture will drop before you can refresh it (Usually due to movement or personal failures). If the boss is facing you and you'd cap energy by waiting until he's not facing you.

[Fuuma]

Yeah I usually only cast hemo in my downtime to get the dot rolling, but I might still be using it to often. I feel like im doing 5-10k less dps than I should with 676ilvl sitting around 30k dps. Some of it might be because im transitioning into more multistrike since I was gearing mastery for sin. Im usually around 25% on each skill while you are at around 45%. Also your execution is probably miles above mine. ^^ I have a few fights in the 60th percentile but I would like to atleast be around the 80th.

[Rosvall]

Yeah I usually only cast hemo in my downtime to get the dot rolling, but I might still be using it to often. I feel like im doing 5-10k less dps than I should with 676ilvl sitting around 30k dps. Some of it might be because im transitioning into more multistrike since I was gearing mastery for sin. Im usually around 25% on each skill while you are at around 45%. Also your execution is probably miles above mine. ^^ I have a few fights in the 60th percentile but I would like to atleast be around the 80th.

Post some logs! Pref a boss where you have high uptime on boss (activity).

[Fuuma]

Post some logs! Pref a boss where you have high uptime on boss (activity).

warcraftlogs.com/reports/jYf3g9w7AhDZJNGM

Here are the logs from our first day in brf this week, my character is Kaguma. The fights I did best on is probably Oregorger and Hanz/Franz. I have regemmed and reenchanted all my gear to multistrike since then.

[Ralor]

Ralor,

Couple quick comparisons with my log of normal gruul on tuesday. you can see my log here:


Your fight was 6 seconds longer then mine and I am by no means perfect at sub, but I do pretty well.

Your ambush count is a bit low. I have 35 vs your 27. Additionally, you have more casts of SnD and Rupture then I do. Make sure you dont refresh those too soon.

In addition, you have ~45% FW uptime vs my ~59%. That plus your low ambush count probably means you just aren't pooling CPs and energy before your ambush and vanish AND make sure to have enough energy left for an ambush at the last possible second on SD and Subterfuge. You should get at least 3 ambush off in a vanish, and ~16 seconds of FW from a vanish.

Thank you for the response.

Maybe I am going about Sub all wrong, I am consistently trying to burn through all of my energy, and so when I does come time to pool CPs and energy for a vanish or a dance, I am just sitting for about 5 secs waiting. Should I only be using abilities as to not cap on energy? Also another question I have for when I vanish. Once I pool energy to try to get at least 3 ambushes. If I cap out on CPs because of crits and premed do I use a GCD for Eviscerate? Seems like I am getting 2 ambushes and then have too many combo points so I use a finisher, and then don't get my 3 ambush in.

[Rankith]

Thank you for the response.

Maybe I am going about Sub all wrong, I am consistently trying to burn through all of my energy, and so when I does come time to pool CPs and energy for a vanish or a dance, I am just sitting for about 5 secs waiting. Should I only be using abilities as to not cap on energy? Also another question I have for when I vanish. Once I pool energy to try to get at least 3 ambushes. If I cap out on CPs because of crits and premed do I use a GCD for Eviscerate? Seems like I am getting 2 ambushes and then have too many combo points so I use a finisher, and then don't get my 3 ambush in.

In general, always having energy/cp pooled is better then spamming it off right away UNLESS you have a proc/buff/debuff up (FW, Trinkets, Rings etc). You should dump energy if your about to have time off target, but other then that, just keep from capping so you can dump a few extra abilities into things like trinket and ring procs. Before Vanish/Dance, you should for sure get as close to cap for energy as you can, and don't be at more then 6-7 CP. So you can Vanish->Ambush->(Evis if near CP cap)->Premed(if at 3 or less CP)->Ambush->Ambush(if not near cap). Basically, in vanish you want at least 3 ambush and a use of premed, and you must always ambush first after vanish to get FW up before you evis. There are several scenarios depending on what is about to fall (Rutpure and SnD) and how many combo points your at. But do your best to Ambush first, dump your CP so you can premed and then keep ambushing. I can get 3 ambush off every time no problem, even if I have to evis twice in it.

[Ralor]

Alright, I will get into a pug this weekend and go with that mindset and see how I do. We had attempts on H Blackhand last night and by the end of phase two I was still managing 31k. I'm not sure how that compares against everyone else but I thought it was a decent number, granted I didn't have to go up for adds.

[Rosvall]

Alright, I will get into a pug this weekend and go with that mindset and see how I do. We had attempts on H Blackhand last night and by the end of phase two I was still managing 31k. I'm not sure how that compares against everyone else but I thought it was a decent number, granted I didn't have to go up for adds.

Here's my latest log for reference:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

As you can see, it's ~38k dps during p1+p2 together. And ~44k during p3. Mainly due to heroism and potion usage.
Also had the luxury of not needing to go up to adds. So it's quite a lot time on boss.

[Texxmage]

Is Sub still as unforgiving as during Cata? Just getting back into it.

[Rosvall]

Is Sub still as unforgiving as during Cata? Just getting back into it.

CD's have a larger impact now, but it's easier to juggle.

[javen]

I was hoping with the removal of snapshotting and the 30% overlap most other buffs/debuffs got, that Find Weakness would get a similar treatment, especially since Envenom did. Still hoping, but seems unlikely now that it's one of the higher performing specs. No reason for them to change things

- - - Updated - - -

Also, does it throw anyone else off that SnD doesn't trigger stacks of anticipation? It just seems...wrong, having five stacks of anticipation, and no combo points

[Athabaska]

How do you check the Find Weakness uptime? I cant find it at all in warcraftlogs, and I have ambush in logs.

Upd: nvm, found it. Hidden a bit to deep imo

[Deleted]

How do you check the Find Weakness uptime? I cant find it at all in warcraftlogs, and I have ambush in logs.

Upd: nvm, found it. Hidden a bit to deep imo

where is it?

[Rosvall]

where is it?

Under Debuffs and cast by player.

[Jebiga]

Just want to say thanks to everyone for the help I went up 4k during this learning curve huge difference. This put me top 5 for fight length vs Ilvl

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ration.300.360