Death Knight Ptr Notes February 13

[Schizoide]

frost is weak, yes frost needs improvement but I still feel that frost looks so insanely abysmal because its representation is comparably bad.

I addressed that earlier. Sample bias is still a thing, but 50th percentile Unholy is competitive with 90th percentile Frost. Frost really is far, far behind. It's not just all the good players going Unholy.

[ohpocket]

Everyone pretending Dk's are in a good spot are blind imo. Look at the majority of these fights in BRF. Super heavy cleave, we're middle of the pack at best. The blood boil nerf back earlier just hurt us completely. I'm not saying BB didn't need the nerf, but they nuked it hard.

[Stacie]

My own personal experience is unholy does well in BRF even without the buff thats not live and 4 set. Maybe when everyone else gets gear things might change. But right now on a few fights i am sitting at the top and on a few middle.

This for me is an ok spot to be at least better than a few others class's. My only issue with DK play at the moment is frost being rather undertuned (to the point unholy is always the go to choice for progress).

We have been in much worse places in the past (Siege of Orgrimmar)

TBH even though i bash frost a bit right now, as i see others also doing i still play it on the odd fight that is not progress and still don't come in last place on the meters. It's just unholy does everything better.

[Deleted]

AMZ is the most useless talent in this game.

I use it on Gruul, Flamebender, Blast Furnace and Blackhand in BRF. The 2 min CD is fairly low compared to what other classes have. Why do you say that it's useless?

[Fenrkyr]

I use it on Gruul, Flamebender, Blast Furnace and Blackhand in BRF. The 2 min CD is fairly low compared to what other classes have. Why do you say that it's useless?

There is more theater in the use of "useless" on these forums than possible any other. Many people will look at a simcraft list of stat weights that says something like (and these are just random numbers);

multistrike = 2.89, mastery = 2.70, crit = 2.59, haste = 2.52, versatility = 2.44

and then say "WTF versatility is USELESS why is it on all our gear?!?!"

[Maxweii]

I use it on Gruul, Flamebender, Blast Furnace and Blackhand in BRF. The 2 min CD is fairly low compared to what other classes have. Why do you say that it's useless?

Can be used on Kromog, Iron Maidens (likely in Mythic for the shadow aoe cone thing), Oregoreger, Darmac as well. Pretty much a better way to say it is you can use it on almost every fight in there except Hanz and Franz and Trains lol

snipped

Again you're argueing with the wrong person. I never said Frost is okay, I never said it's in a good spot and Unholy is better.
Want it in plain English? Frost's in a totally shit spot right now, and it's not even just a lack of log representation (which yes, I have looked at plenty of Frosts logs!).

Not that it matters too, but since you're essentially trying to sling shit this whole time, why would I need a Frost offspec? It's obviously doing shit now, so why would I bother even touching it. Should you not have some sorta insight into someone's knowledge before assuming you know what they know? Yeah you probably should, so don't assume you know I supposedly have no clue what I'm talking about.

[Faenlyn]

Again you're argueing with the wrong person. I never said Frost is okay, I never said it's in a good spot and Unholy is better.
Want it in plain English? Frost's in a totally shit spot right now, and it's not even just a lack of log representation (which yes, I have looked at plenty of Frosts logs!).

Not that it matters too, but since you're essentially trying to sling shit this whole time, why would I need a Frost offspec? It's obviously doing shit now, so why would I bother even touching it. Should you not have some sorta insight into someone's knowledge before assuming you know what they know? Yeah you probably should, so don't assume you know I supposedly have no clue what I'm talking about.

Frost is our PVP spec. Unholy is our PVE spec. We should all get used to it. They cant buff Frost too much in PVE without breaking PVP. There's new management since GC left and Celestalon is in, and the days where every DPS spec had to be viable in PVE and PVP seems over

[Deleted]

Frost is our PVP spec. Unholy is our PVE spec. We should all get used to it. They cant buff Frost too much in PVE without breaking PVP. There's new management since GC left and Celestalon is in, and the days where every DPS spec had to be viable in PVE and PVP seems over

Ok lets take a look, arms is pvp specc also i guess? your argument is invalid, however you do point out one thing and that is balance in pvp is the reason its broken and i do agree, but they can do things like make it do less damage toward players just as they did with mages comet talent(check latest ptr 6.1 patch notes) it effects the talent less in pvp.

They can do that with frost aswell, however removing ERW and replacing it with somthing else would be a good thing to do also to solve the burst in pvp.

the burst in pve is horrible for frost, but pvp its good, and thats due to ERW.

anyway what i am trying to say is its a bad excuse to tell somone its a pvp specc, since there are evidence upon evidence that goes straight against that argument so it dont stand on anything.

its the same as hybrid should not deal as good dps are pure classes, hybrids are gone ages ago, and just take a look at boomkins.

oh wait they are topping all the charts in brf atm alongside locks

[Deleted]

IMO the weakness of frost is overaxxagurated.. There are just no rly toplvl players who plays the specc. The real problem is, that unholy is so versatile.. Unholy is in everything good to ok while Both frost speccs are in one thing good and in the other pretty bad. Also Unholy does middle of the pack in BrF so its not that we are last or anything on some fights we can do very well on thers not but thats how WoW works. With these nerfs to Boomkin, demo and arms it should get closer in 6.1. only thing that baffles me is that mages did not get a nerf..

[RuneDK]

IMO the weakness of frost is overaxxagurated.. There are just no rly toplvl players who plays the specc. The real problem is, that unholy is so versatile.. Unholy is in everything good to ok while Both frost speccs are in one thing good and in the other pretty bad. Also Unholy does middle of the pack in BrF so its not that we are last or anything on some fights we can do very well on thers not but thats how WoW works. With these nerfs to Boomkin, demo and arms it should get closer in 6.1. only thing that baffles me is that mages did not get a nerf..

the weakness of frost is not over-exaggerated. The spec does not scale well and still continue to perform poorly. I can tell you right now someone like Vereesa will highly outperform as unholy compared to frost if they had bis gear for both specs. Also this is the first tier, can't wait to see how much frost falls behind next tier without buffs.

[Deleted]

IMO the weakness of frost is overaxxagurated.. There are just no rly toplvl players who plays the specc. The real problem is, that unholy is so versatile.. Unholy is in everything good to ok while Both frost speccs are in one thing good and in the other pretty bad. Also Unholy does middle of the pack in BrF so its not that we are last or anything on some fights we can do very well on thers not but thats how WoW works. With these nerfs to Boomkin, demo and arms it should get closer in 6.1. only thing that baffles me is that mages did not get a nerf..

There is a reason the "top level" as you now talk about it dont play it, becuse as said it scales bad are rng and got mechanical issues.
and got terrible aoe.

when another specc is just plain better what do you expect?
you dont think good players play the specc? or you think just those who aim for wf is playing frost? and just those are good players? if so im here to tell you, you could not be more wrong.

There is plenty of good frost players that masters it, and dont come up in the numbers becuse of the reason stated, it scales bad got horrible aoe, got horrible burst, got worse ST damage than all other classes that are great in aoe.

and last but most important one in pve, it has hillariously bad mobility.

and one more fun fact a FDK(2h) can gain same amount of damage and dps as in unholy presence as in frost presence just shows you how bad designed it is.

there is numbric proofs, and ive done it on blackhand and such aswell i lose around 1 to 2k dps, sure thats some lost dps but in no way should the "presence" be like that.

wich just shows how weak or presence we are suppose to dps in is compared to the unholy one.


What needs to be done is following, change ERW for frost enhanced Empowe rune weapon, and it has 3 min cd and ontop of reseting all runes it gives you a 10 second buff that increases damage dealt(just a small bit) so the burst for FDK is better and closer to all other classes, FDK burst right now relies heavily on many KM proccs.

and PoF wich just does not cut it at all.

buff howling blast to deal more damage to fix ST abit and increase the aoe/cleave.

increase its baseline damage by like 20% id say.

dont need to touch obliterate to then, since this is what blizzard is worried about, obliterates that can ko a player in pvp, in a second or two with lucky KM proccs and ERW.

and change frost presence to increase rune regen also alongside with the current things it does, not to high just a tiny bit.

and buff might of frozen wastes scaling, and the theressian also.

Numbers can be tweaked and balanced on PTR.

my numbers coud be to high, most important imo would be buff howling blast and might of frozen wastes/therassian, and frost presence all together, and give them tinier boosts, just giving one of these wont solve it in the long hall of the xpac.

[Deleted]

Also this is the first tier, can't wait to see how much frost falls behind next tier without buffs.

How about DW? more mastery, stronger it gets.

[Deleted]

How about DW? more mastery, stronger it gets.

dw is in a worse situation actually and scales worse than 2h.

Got less ST and better aoe thou, but reason why it mostly got better aoe is becuse mastery is good for DW while 2h its a bonus stat, not bad for frost 2h but nothing you really want.

[boz0]

Patch 6.1 class tuning is mostly buffs to weaker specs and talents, so it shouldn't drastically change things.

Guess they forgot about Frost ... again

[Fenrkyr]

Frost will be low enough by the end of BRF to warrant slight hotfix buffs....probably. It will certainly receive buffs before 6.2 (or whenever the next raid opens) that will put it back to a reasonable level, and the process will start over again. If you have played frost for any length of time you should be used to this ride by now. The last 2 expansion beta phases were full of intelligent discussion and ideas for solving this never ending problem, but none of the ideas were ever acknowledged, let alone implemented. Doubt they ever will be. If you like frost you just have to accept that you are going to get weaker and weaker (comparatively) as the rest of your raid gears up.

[Schizoide]

Frost is weak enough to justify hotfix buffs right now. When we'll get them is, of course, up in the air.