Bring back Valor Points!

[Krom2040]

The badge system in BC only worked for bad players simple as that and was removed due to it being bad, Sure it was great at the start of BC for those who jumped right into heroics within the first week but after that it was useless much like it would be today. The only way it would work is if they made some sort of gold conversion for them for the people who raid mythic to get something out of doing old content however they have just cut out the middle man and just made it flat gold so there is literally no point in bringing back a terrible system.

BC: Get gear from tokens if you were a bad player you used the gear much like the apexis gear now,if you raided and were in BT gear you had nothing to spend them on, sure you could buy gems but if you were in a raiding guild your gems would be given to you from the guild bank or just farm the soloable trash in there and make a fortune.

What a ridiculously juvenile perspective.

"If you're not in a bleeding edge raiding guild then you're bad and don't matter and get fucked"

[Djuntas]

I do mythic raids. Your pleb gear is meaningless to me

Infracted;

Hillarious with the infraction. Some people just report on anything.

Mate, I don't even play WOD. So yea....gear, what gear :P

Again TBC was the best. Hard 5 mans, only easiere until BT/Hyjal times. You could get good gear from badges, but it wasen't face-roll like WOTLK.

I renember I farmed up to 40-50 badges on 1 day as my max. With semi-premade groups...LFM inn trade channel back then was just fine, cause it was 1 server, and you knew all the people who was worth going with, or could sometimes spot a good player by guild name.

[Shiroh]

I don't need forced content to enjoy the game. So, no thank you.

[kamuimac]

Yes it is Your meaningless gear to do meaningless things is irrelevant

[.

attitude like this is exackt reason why people ridicule mythic raiders as usless nolifers

there is need for personal gear progress on every single possible difficulty of content whther its lfr or mythic - people need to feel that their chars are geting stronger every week/2 weeks else they have no reason to play the game. and as has been proven for past 10 years raiidng is not activity that most of wow players want to do for that progress thus so little participation in any mode higher then normal.

[striderZA]

I would like to see the Wrath philosophy implemented again to an extent, catch-up dungeons and buying gear that doesn't completely suck with emblems.

[aziras]

I would like to see the Wrath philosophy implemented again to an extent, catch-up dungeons and buying gear that doesn't completely suck with emblems.

Wrath had it nailed.

Valor emblems: Obtained from current-tier raiding. Indirect weekly cap and max cap. Converted to heroism on new tier.
Heroism emblems: Obtained from tons of stuff, no cap on obtaining, max cap to make sure it was not pooled too high.

Every time they made a new tier, the stuff bought with the valor emblems got dumped down to heroism. Everyone could always buy current_tier-1 gear from free-flow resources. Exactly like PvP has worked since they made the seasonal system.

Top-tier raiders never had a reason to farm heroism outside the random collection when they helped out friends and whatnot. They obtained full tier-level gear from raiding heroic/hardmodes during the tier and jumped straight into the next tier when it opened.
Mid-tier raiding guilds got screwed big-time though, as they had to farm old content for gear, and gap-fill their sets with heroism upgrades at each tier transition.

Casual players who put in enough time never got more than a tier behind. Great progression design if you ask me.

Even without LFR raids got pug'ed big-time. Especially the 1-boss ones with little chance of falling apart and leaving you with a wasted lockout.

The system lacked weapons, but that would have been easily fixable.

Making it all gold-based is, in my opinion, one of the biggest f'ups Blizzard did to the game. And why they did not do the same to PvP is a puzzle. At least it would have been consistent if you had been able to buy last season's set with gold on day1 of the new season. But maybe they knew how much people would complain that you had to farm gold to buy your way into PvP.
Except they did not really make gear available for gold - which is f'up #2. They just converted all the PvE rewards to gold, without giving people anything to spend that gold on. And don't start with the crafted gear crap. With a 3-piece max it is hardly a viable way to gear to catch up.

[Bearshield]

Agree completely and actually had this very conversation in guild chat just yesterday. While the raids this expansion may be some of their best to date, the lack of content outside of them is frustrating and it doesn't sound like 6.1 will be doing anything to solve this issue. Furthermore, as a raider I dislike having no way to improve my gear outside of raiding. I certainly do not expect to gear up 100% outside of raids, but valor points/justice badges existed to fill the gaps when the item you needed wasn't dropping or was in short supply. (anyone else bitter about the lack of shields in this tier?) It gave you a reason to go back and run dungeons or as was mentioned previously, older raids (such as Kara) which in turn, gives you something to do outside of raiding.

I still firmly believe the lack of any significant way to get gear outside of raiding is intended to drastically slow the gearing process and thus allow Blizz to drag out the content longer but the fact is they seem to have forgotten that an MMORPG should make you WANT to log in often. Having no incentive to log in outside of raids 3 months after an expansion's launch does not bode well for the remainder of the xpack.

- - - Updated - - -

Wrath had it nailed.

Valor emblems: Obtained from current-tier raiding. Indirect weekly cap and max cap. Converted to heroism on new tier.
Heroism emblems: Obtained from tons of stuff, no cap on obtaining, max cap to make sure it was not pooled too high.

Every time they made a new tier, the stuff bought with the valor emblems got dumped down to heroism. Everyone could always buy current_tier-1 gear from free-flow resources. Exactly like PvP has worked since they made the seasonal system.

Top-tier raiders never had a reason to farm heroism outside the random collection when they helped out friends and whatnot. They obtained full tier-level gear from raiding heroic/hardmodes during the tier and jumped straight into the next tier when it opened.
Mid-tier raiding guilds got screwed big-time though, as they had to farm old content for gear, and gap-fill their sets with heroism upgrades at each tier transition.

Casual players who put in enough time never got more than a tier behind. Great progression design if you ask me.

Even without LFR raids got pug'ed big-time. Especially the 1-boss ones with little chance of falling apart and leaving you with a wasted lockout.

The system lacked weapons, but that would have been easily fixable.

Making it all gold-based is, in my opinion, one of the biggest f'ups Blizzard did to the game. And why they did not do the same to PvP is a puzzle. At least it would have been consistent if you had been able to buy last season's set with gold on day1 of the new season. But maybe they knew how much people would complain that you had to farm gold to buy your way into PvP.
Except they did not really make gear available for gold - which is f'up #2. They just converted all the PvE rewards to gold, without giving people anything to spend that gold on. And don't start with the crafted gear crap. With a 3-piece max it is hardly a viable way to gear to catch up.

^Pretty much this. You had things to do outside of your main raids and you had ways to fill gear gaps if it wasn't dropping in your main raid. Course, people whined about it back then too because heaven forbid people can acquire a few pieces of gear outside of raids.

[Delaios]

/snip

Definitely agree that Wrath had it right, but not initially. The system you described applies more to Cata. Wrath introduced a new token for each tier. Heroism was from heroic dungeons. Valor was from Naxx/EoE/OS. Conquest was from Ulduar. Triumph was from ToC. Frost was from ICC. But it wasn't until ToC that every previous tier (and heroics) started dropping previous tier currency.

Cata did away with all the different types of currency and replaced them with Justice/Valor. With Valor buying normal mode equivalent gear, with a weekly cap. Justice had no weekly cap and offered more and more equipment as old Valor gear got converted to Justice.

[Deleted]

This is so not true.

There's nothing to do outside of raids anyway. And whatever little content there is outside of raids, itemlevel 600 is enough for that.

[TheDeeGee]

Sucks you have to farm PvP now to get PvP Transmog Gear.

I liked farming 5 Mans for Justice Points instead an convert it to Honor.

[Pieterman]

There's currently plenty of ways to acquire gear. On top of that, people don't need another system they need to keep up with if they want to compete. As a catchup system, sure. Rewarding current tier ilvls? No thank you.

[Simulacrum]

I think some people in this thread are confused about why valor/badges/whatever were a good thing, and different from gold as a currency. The point of those currencies was to encourage people to play more of the game's content. Raids you don't necessarily need gear from anymore; 5 man dungeons; even those horrible scenarios that I'm glad they realized were horrible.

Gold doesn't serve this purpose because, as you say, it can be acquired doing anything. These days, outside of raid days, I usually just log on to cycle through my dozen characters every day, taking less than an hour to do all their missions and start new ones, then do all their daily tradeskill cooldowns, and every few days I pick up the tradeskill items/garrison resources that they've stacked up. I make maybe 10000g/day doing this, and it takes me less than an hour, and - and this is key - it involves doing absolutely nothing in the game world. I just sit in my garrison for the whole thing.

I've piled up hundreds of thousands of gold so far this expansion doing this, and most of it I just give away to my guildmates because there isn't even anything to spend gold on once you've got the gear you need from raids, and a coupel of boes from the AH to fill the slots you maybe didn't get raid gear from.

When we had alternate currencies, we had a reason to do the game's content. Now we don't. Except for crapexis crystals, I guess, but those are worthless. And also, those dailies are awful. Almost as bad as scenarios.

- - - Updated - - -

There's currently plenty of ways to acquire gear. On top of that, people don't need another system they need to keep up with if they want to compete. As a catchup system, sure. Rewarding current tier ilvls? No thank you.

There aren't plenty of ways, though. There's pvp, then there's raiding, and pvp only gives you 660 gear so it's only worth it if you just dinged. Which leaves raiding. And that's it.

[Rawrzillasor]

To the nerds saying we want gear but we don't even raid? What the hell do you actually do then? Ifyou arnt raiding current content there is no need for good gear.

[Kazuchika]

I heard pet battles need 670 ilevel true story

[enragedgorilla]

Hey but there are apexis crystals now. Just do the same thing over and over again for three weeks and you eventually get a tiny upgrade. Wait ...

That is what I thought as well, JP/VP = Apex now.
Exactly the same as the previous 2 currency types, melted down into one.
There should be more options / choices for gear to buy with them but...as far as a difference , I don't see much other than you can "farm" Apex as much as you want from mobs rather than cm/5h etc...to the artificially stupid cap anyway.

[mvaliz]

Valor and dailies and rep grinds, everything that gave you a fucking reason to log into the game outside of raid hours.

In before super ultra mega casuals saying it's good the game has 0 content that keeps you playing.

Ummmm.... I don't think you understand what Casuals are

The content you listed ARE for casuals.

- - - Updated - - -

To the nerds saying we want gear but we don't even raid? What the hell do you actually do then? Ifyou arnt raiding current content there is no need for good gear.

I'm sure you've been told half-a-dozzen times, and you will probably ignore even this one - but here goes a few off the top of my head:

Brief list of what higher iLevel gear gives a casual:
Easier time with soloing older content (past Raids, heroics, ect)
Faster ability to farm particular mobs (rep grinds, ect)
Faster defense of being attacked randomly during profession farming
More efficient/faster/survivability when farming current end-game heroic dungeons (I do this on my tank for fun n' profit)
Easier catch-up on forgotten quests in previous zones
Fighting rare elites you can't normally solo
More survivability/dps when fighting world bosses.

and now
Higher chance for a good score in a Garrison invasion

Honestly I ask you - why do you bother raiding if the only use for your gear is to raid HARDER stuff? Seems like a pretty pointless/fruitless exercise IMO. What's the poing of having those "spoils" if you can't use them for anything worthwhile in your normal game?

EDIT: Also... "nerds"? 1982 called... they want their stereotype back...

[Simulacrum]

To the nerds saying we want gear but we don't even raid? What the hell do you actually do then? Ifyou arnt raiding current content there is no need for good gear.

Core to the reward structure of WoW (i.e. what keeps people playing) is progression. Character progression is a huge part of that. If there's no way for a player to progress their character outside of raiding, and they don't want to raid, what's going to keep them playing? Pet battles? Achievement points? Neither of those improve the character.