PSA: Tigereye Brew and You! Stop Worrying About 10 Stacks!

[Deleted]

She is right.

[Viggen2012]

The 7 stacks thing is incredibly outdated. It's best to have a damage boost up for a major cooldown like Serenity (FISTS OF FURY DOES NOT COUNT AS A MAJOR COOLDOWN - 25 seconds is up a bit too often to use 15seconds of TeB on. As I mentioned in the first post, you'd never have lots of stacks to burst with a good proc) or your second potion, or an on-use trinket if you have one.

For Serenity, just pop what you have.

Does that basically mean:

- if you have a proc (trinket, potion, etc.), blow the TEB no matter how many stacks you have up?
- if you have, let's say 9 stacks on TEB and FoF comes off CD - do you blow TEB on 9 stacks for FoF (provided there is no proc at this moment) or you skip TEB for this FoF?

[Ayr]

My current TEB helper weakaura is set to yell at me to use TEB under the two following conditions:

+ Multi/CritStrike/Agi Trinkets proc , Tiger Strikes proc, Ring proc
+ TEB is not currently active

Sound about right? How 'bout weapon enchants too?

[Babylonius]

- if you have a proc (trinket, potion, etc.), blow the TEB no matter how many stacks you have up?

Yes

- if you have, let's say 9 stacks on TEB and FoF comes off CD - do you blow TEB on 9 stacks for FoF (provided there is no proc at this moment) or you skip TEB for this FoF?

No, FoF isn't a big enough CD to use TEB on.

- - - Updated - - -

My current TEB helper weakaura is set to yell at me to use TEB under the two following conditions:

+ Multi/CritStrike/Agi Trinkets proc , Tiger Strikes proc, Ring proc
+ TEB is not currently active

Sound about right? How 'bout weapon enchants too?

Weakaura is fine. Weapon enchants aren't typically enough stats to use TEB with, imo.

[LoKSET]

Does that basically mean:
- if you have a proc (trinket, potion, etc.), blow the TEB no matter how many stacks you have up?

Well, that kinda depends - sure you get all the procs but let's say you're low on energy, Energizing brew is on cd and FoF won't be available during said procs. There is no reason to use TEB - it will do what? boost your autoattacks, a couple of BoKs and a RSK - that's simply not worth it.

[rijn dael]

No, FoF isn't a big enough CD to use TEB on.

I really disagree with this, and the idea of using TEB on a single large buff without care for how close to cap you are. It may show as a gain in sims - because the sim only tries to line things up with a single proc - and it may be easy for people to perform, but that doesn't make it the optimal decision vs holding out in practice, in the same manner that coin won't ever show up as a dps increase in default sims.

Here is the current highest (public) gruul parse

Note what he does - Every single TEB is lined up with a FoF, of course with one or more proc/pot/trinket/cooldown where possible - but not always. Only one FoF misses out on a TEB in the entire parse.

Not one usage under 10 stacks (barring opener / last 15seconds of fight), and every usage includes FoF (bar one use as lust is ending, and the use as the boss dies).

Every time serenity will be up, it is lined up with the nearest FoF, and both are fit within the single max TEB.

[Viggen2012]

I really disagree with this, and the idea of using TEB on a single large buff without care for how close to cap you are. It may show as a gain in sims - because the sim only tries to line things up with a single proc - and it may be easy for people to perform, but that doesn't make it the optimal decision vs holding out in practice, in the same manner that coin won't ever show up as a dps increase in default sims.

Here is the current highest (public) gruul parse

Note what he does - Every single TEB is lined up with a FoF, of course with one or more proc/pot/trinket/cooldown where possible. Not one usage under 10 stacks (barring opener / last 15seconds of fight).

Well, let's say we are doing X DPS with all our abilities without FoF and Y DPS with FoF only.

Then, since TEB cannot be "wasted" (as you can stack them up to 20), the only thing that matters is what is bigger:

X (15 sec) * Proc (trinket, tiger strikes, whatever)

Or

Y + X (11-12 s, depending on your haste)

If it is the latter option - then you need to line up TEB with FoF, if it's the first one - you should aim for Procs IMO.

[rijn dael]

Well, let's say we are doing X DPS with all our abilities without FoF and Y DPS with FoF only.

Then, since TEB cannot be "wasted" (as you can stack them up to 20), the only thing that matters is what is bigger:

X (15 sec) * Proc (trinket, tiger strikes, whatever)

Or

Y + X (11-12 s, depending on your haste)

If it is the latter option - then you need to line up TEB with FoF, if it's the first one - you should aim for Procs IMO.

Your logic needs to account for scenarios where you can have both - but sure.

It's just that in practice, the latter wins.

Here is Gruul #2 and Gruul #3 - if you look at their TEB stack usage, they don't aim for 10 stacks like #1 did, they just religiously use TEB with FoF. #3 is a particularly clear example where he doesn't even check that FoF + a proc will end up being together if he TEB's before FoF cd is up, he just TEB>FoF's each time.

[Deleted]

I am like really confused in what to do now =P. According to logs using it with FoF is best and according to mods (who are good players also) using it everytime with a trinket proc is best. What am I going to do now?

[Laeahndria]

Speaking specifically about the thought process of the monks who have the top 3 parses, they might just think the following:

There is a great chance every time I pop TeB for every FoF that either tiger strikes, one of my trinkets, or ring will proc or already be proc'd. Since FoF is my greatest damaging ability, and I will be left with full energy after, and there is a great chance to have some proc during this time, this might be the best sure fire way to get the most dps.

Thoughts?

[Scotlander]

I think the usage before every FoF regardless of stacks is a result of them having the 4-piece bonus. Looking at their logs before getting the bonus, they were not using <10 stack TeB before every FoF then, and were lining up their usages with procs mainly.

[Fireguard]

Would it be a dps loss in any way to activate TeB immediately following a spell (start of GCD)? or would it not make a difference to wait until .001s before casting your next BoK of when you intend to use it? Does the DoT of BoK ramp with TeB being stacked, or just the initial cast of BoK upon use, causing BoK dot to be a snapshot of its damage dealt on hit. [10's of dps I know, the brainpower would likely result in greater loss overall but still].

How do you know if you should save TeB stacks? Suppose archmage's procs but you are still at 6 TeB stack with no chi brew charges. Do you not use your 6 stacks in hope that within 30s another trinket of more worth will proc? Are all procs short of weapon procs worth using on no matter the situation (as listed above). Or even waiting another GCD b/c you know that your next blackout kick is the counter for the next TeB generation (would it be worth waiting for this?).

Also I am interested in Scotlander's question too

[Laeahndria]

I think the usage before every FoF regardless of stacks is a result of them having the 4-piece bonus. Looking at their logs before getting the bonus, they were not using <10 stack TeB before every FoF then, and were lining up their usages with procs mainly.

That's a good observation. Now that I think about it, the 4pc is a baked in proc, and it would make even more of an argument to TeB for FoF. I would love hina's input on this.

[rijn dael]

That's a good observation. Now that I think about it, the 4pc is a baked in proc, and it would make even more of an argument to TeB for FoF. I would love hina's input on this.

4p ups the value of whatever you are doing - like teb always did anyway. Unless you can line it up with tiger strikes (they aren't), it shouldn't bias towards anything in particular other than the highest controllable damage you can fit in.

Without any set bonuses, I tend towards lining it up with FoF + proc - but with 2set, you are already 2-4 teb* by the end of your FoF, so its easier to guarentee a reasonable TEB for each FoF rather than picking your ideal moments.

*depending on mastery, but +1 for 2set, 3chi towards your +2 (FoF cost) and reasonable chance at a 3rd / low chance of a 4th from mastery between those two stack gains.

[Viggen2012]

Well, that's what I think too.

However, speaking of AoE/Cleave scenarios - ChiEx is doing comparable damage to FoF - should we then line the TEB to ChiEx usage or for FoF usage?

[Scotlander]

I tried this method out last night to great success in our heroic run. Naturally on the three single target fights, I only survived to the end in one of them, but I did rank 95th percentile on oregoreger: ww w.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yGxNjagY4LPwpHW2#fight=16&type=damage-done

And here's a 4% Kromog wipe at 39.5k dps which would've put me in top 20:
ww w.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yGxNjagY4LPwpHW2#fight=41&type=damage-done

I wasn't really sure how I should handle maidens, but you get so much TEB there I just tried popping every proc and popping every FoF to see how that went. We didn't get them last night before we ended the raid but there didn't seem to be as much, if any of an increase compared to when I would just 10-stack pop before every FoF and above 16. I'll see where I end up after our kill tonight.

Sorry for the weird links, not allowed to post links here apparently until I've posted a few times.

[Deleted]

I dont really see it really in the logs, but did you use the popping it for FoF method or did you pop it on any trinket proc with any amount of stacks?

[rijn dael]

I tried this method out last night to great success in our heroic run. Naturally on the three single target fights, I only survived to the end in one of them, but I did rank 95th percentile on oregoreger: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done

And here's a 4% Kromog wipe at 39.5k dps which would've put me in top 20:
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done

Sorry for the weird links, not allowed to post links here apparently until I've posted a few times.

Thanks for the link - just got our first real wipes in on kromog last night, so interested in what you are prioritising there :-)

Looks like you just ensure a 10stack teb for the hands, and otherwise burn as per usual overall on the fight?

So far in our attempts, I have had to sit on my hands during grasps, and the boomies/demo locks still manage to break me out during the aoe (zenmed or die), so I don't think I will be saving anything for that phase - but pillars are still causing us grief. You seem to get them down without issue - any tricks overall? We seem to be so far behind on them each time it feels like we missing something.

[Scotlander]

In both those attempts I was popping TeB as soon as I got a Scales of Doom proc, Ring proc or Tiger Strikes proc. The 10 stack TeB for the hands was just a lucky coincidence (combination of having the stacks and getting a proc) both times.

rijn, this was just from our heroic clear, trying out the method described by the op and saw a substantial dps gain. I'm not sure how it would apply to mythic.

[Katryn]

but pillars are still causing us grief. You seem to get them down without issue - any tricks overall? We seem to be so far behind on them each time it feels like we missing something.

This possibly belongs in the tips and tricks thread but:

I was in for our 2nd mythic Kromog kill last night. What I was doing was hanging around near the middle pillar spawn, cloning onto the left and right pillars and then using TEB and FoF on the middle pillar while avoiding the trembling earth. Then just sit on 3 chi for touch to ensure you get the middle one down in time. If you're having issues try to not clone onto the pillars and just focus on getting good damage on one with your cooldowns up.