Can we please have Innervate back

[MegaVolti]

OP has a valid point, though:
Blizzard is going for a healing model where mana matters. While this is the intended game style I also don't like it at all.
Healing should be limited by skills and cooldowns just as dps is. The whole mana thing is a giant annoyance. I'd much rather have an energy based healer or a healing system where mana functions more like energy does right now than the current system. I hate mana.
But since Blizzard does not share that opinion I guess we are stuck with mana being super important and that's not going to change any time soon.

[Deleted]

CBA picking apart all the different issues that the OP randomly mixed together.

Just please don't ever give us Innervate back. Innervate is basically a WeakAura and a keybind with literally no depth whatsoever.

[Jayjayhey]

No thanks. The current system shows who the bad druids are. If you are going OOM, you are not playing a resto druid correctly. Stop spamming Wild Growth and keep lifebloom up 95%+ uptime, and you'll see a difference.

[Deleted]

Of all the people blaming it on a player skill issue, can you please link your own mythic logs so we can analyze and prove how it's clearly OP's fault for being bad?

[Vark]

"bad druids"...

As the OP said - we have two ways of healing.

SotF - keep lifebloom/shroom, regrowth on clearcast/ns, spam wrath, swiftmend->WG, spam wrath
WG is retarded spell, it's not even healing my target, lifebloom/shroom is "keep-at-100%-uptime-or-lose-your-healing" - lb on tank, shroom on melees - wow, so hard, oh! free regrowth, finally, why my DoC healed the one with 99% hp instead the one with 70%?

Tree of Life - keep lifebloom/shroom, regrowth on clearcast/ns, DON'T USE ANYTHING ELSE OR YOU WILL BE OOM, use ToL -> spam Reju/WG to cover whole raid with hots (here hps jumps to 100k), cry for cooldowns

I don't like any of druid's healing styles - that's why I rerolled to hpally. I can heal the ones I want and I'm not scared that I will be oom because I heal. Healing style based on using cooldowns is just terrible idea (yea, I know about AV, but it's more like buff, not "must use to heal effectively").

I'd like to see Lifebloom changed to cheap and shorter version of Rejuvenation. Bring back Omen of Clarity from WotLK and everything will be fine.

E: Wrath's healing model was so bad I leveled hpally, druid, priest and shammy and played them everyday even with PUG. Honestly: healing model from Wrath without Solaces and spirit/mp5 overload and it will be the best healing model ever.

[Jayjayhey]

Of all the people blaming it on a player skill issue, can you please link your own mythic logs so we can analyze and prove how it's clearly OP's fault for being bad?

How about the OP links his logs so we can analyze his play? Oh wait, he edited out his name on the logs so we can't help.

[Sprucelee]

Maybe Imperator progression just trained me well, or my lucky WF Autoclave trinket and 2pc is making that much of a difference, but mana is not really an issue ATM.

I will say that some classes have never really had issues, and in that way tuning seems off, but with gear Druids get much much better.

[nightfalls]

None of the discussion on whether players are good or bad at mana management or how good/bad druid is at mana as a class is relevant here.

Loganess pretty much hit it on the head, Innervate 5.4 version was nothing more than an overglorified spirit modifier. If druids are worse mana-wise than other classes (which isn't really the case if played correctly), then the correct thing to do would be to reduce mana costs on abilities, or to add mana regen passively.

The only "gameplay" Innervate offered was before the 5.4 butchered version, where it could be cast on other players ("Innervate trading") or when DPS could cast it on healers, but Blizzard has moved away, completely, from the mana cooldown model (where healers and non-healers could use mana CDs for other people as well as themselves). So no, unless that gameplay comes back (which I don't miss it), then Innervate should not come back. If it does, it should be in that form.

[Jayjayhey]

None of the discussion on whether players are good or bad at mana management or how good/bad druid is at mana as a class is relevant here.

Except it is, because doing certain things as a druid can lead to poor mana management.

[Alltat]

...Innervate 5.4 version was nothing more than an overglorified spirit modifier.

All versions of Innervate were glorified spirit modifiers, except perhaps back in vanilla when casting it on a priest was far more beneficial to the raid than casting it on yourself (but then it was really just a spirit modifier for your priests). It was always a pointless no-skill mechanic that you just clicked every couple of minutes to allow yourself to ignore that blue bar a little longer. It was never interesting and aside from the occasional no-brainer assignments that you'd just macro before pulling, there was never any actual gameplay.

The only way I could see Innervate coming back is if there's a complete overhaul of how healer mana works next expansion, with mana pools greatly reduced to be more about short-term burst than the current longevity. If that were to happen, I could see Innervate coming back as essentially a throughput burst cooldown. Outside of that, it's just button bloat.

[nightfalls]

Except it is, because doing certain things as a druid can lead to poor mana management.

No, because that has nothing to do with getting Innervate back versus not getting Innervate back. It's a complete red herring discussion.

- - - Updated - - -

All versions of Innervate were glorified spirit modifiers, except perhaps back in vanilla when casting it on a priest was far more beneficial to the raid than casting it on yourself (but then it was really just a spirit modifier for your priests).

Well, also you could beg other druids for Innervates too if you did poorly, but yeah, your own Innervate was just a spirit modifier.

[healzforu]

"bad druids"...

As the OP said - we have two ways of healing.

SotF - keep lifebloom/shroom, regrowth on clearcast/ns, spam wrath, swiftmend->WG, spam wrath
WG is retarded spell, it's not even healing my target, lifebloom/shroom is "keep-at-100%-uptime-or-lose-your-healing" - lb on tank, shroom on melees - wow, so hard, oh! free regrowth, finally, why my DoC healed the one with 99% hp instead the one with 70%?

Tree of Life - keep lifebloom/shroom, regrowth on clearcast/ns, DON'T USE ANYTHING ELSE OR YOU WILL BE OOM, use ToL -> spam Reju/WG to cover whole raid with hots (here hps jumps to 100k), cry for cooldowns

I don't like any of druid's healing styles - that's why I rerolled to hpally. I can heal the ones I want and I'm not scared that I will be oom because I heal. Healing style based on using cooldowns is just terrible idea (yea, I know about AV, but it's more like buff, not "must use to heal effectively").

I'd like to see Lifebloom changed to cheap and shorter version of Rejuvenation. Bring back Omen of Clarity from WotLK and everything will be fine.

E: Wrath's healing model was so bad I leveled hpally, druid, priest and shammy and played them everyday even with PUG. Honestly: healing model from Wrath without Solaces and spirit/mp5 overload and it will be the best healing model ever.

I completely agree with you on this, i main swapped back to my holy pally, because of mana regen and also the playstyle. I just don't like how druids are anymore, and for those that talk about bad or whatever, i can link logs if need be, im always in the 90-99 percentile on my druid. Let me tell you though, mana is retarded right now, on my pally, i can spam just about any spell and never EVER go oom, on druid if i cast 5+ wg's and rejuv. raid, im pretty oom, just got really old, really fast. I would not mind as much if every class was as mana starved as druids, but there not, and not even close. Either way, im having more fun back on my holy pally anyhow, and until they fix the mana issues and tweak the druid playstyle, i wont miss it.

[Loganess]

I get this, I still dont Think it we have been made up for it the way it needs to be when your comparing it to other classes
I dont care about having innervate back, its just a saying. If the mana issues were made up from another way IE lower mana costs I dont see any problem with that

Unless you can do 0% overheal and therefore all your healing per mana is 100% effective, then you have no leg to stand on in thinking it hasn't been made up for. More likely you are playing it wrong and rejuving someone at 90% who isn't going to take damage for 30 seconds afterwards and then asking where all your mana went.

[nightfalls]

I would not mind as much if every class was as mana starved as druids, but there not, and not even close. Either way, im having more fun back on my holy pally anyhow, and until they fix the mana issues and tweak the druid playstyle, i wont miss it.

I went the other way this expansion, and don't regret it one bit. I actually think the mana management required is a good thing and definitely wish (as you might) that all healers have this sort of requirement.

It definitely adds gameplay from simple 1-2 button spam.

[Jayjayhey]

i can either cast like 6 HTs in a row

this is why most of you have mana issues, you don't know how to play the class. we do not use healing touch.

[Gailiuga]

Wall of Text INC

You are completely right, this was long in my head. The biggest druid problem is that we can't keep pace in long mythic fights. I'm not talking about average(I was 98% in HM mythic mediana) and i see the struggle- if we want to be competitive with other classes, we need more mana regen, that's the fact

We need to make more qq of this in official forums so blizz can hear it

[MegaVolti]

What you're asking for is Wrath healing, which was a terrible healing model. You would never go oom because you would spam your fastest heal and nothing else because nothing else was worthwhile. Player health bars would ping pong from full to empty in a global because of this, because the game is balanced such that if you can heal for a shitload, your raid members will take equal if not greater amounts of damage.

Wrath healing was pretty good regarding mana but the health bar ping pong was not optimal.
Why not combine the best of both worlds? It is totally possible to have the current "weak heals" model without mana.
Just let healers cast as much as they want but make sure that even the strongest healing spells are "weak" so that they can't bring someone up to full HP in a global. That's incredibly easy to tune.

Yes, it would lead to healers only ever using their max throughput rotation but what's wrong about that? Using my best spells is way more fun than using stupid pointless fillers just to not run out of mana.

Even better: If mana was replaced by energy for healers then managing burst healing scenarios becomes way more interesting. Plenty of other games have a mana system that works more like energy does in WoW and are doing quite well with it.

[Konahh]

Personally I think Resto Druid is in a great place right now, you have to think about everything you do I don't understand the mindset of people that enjoy spamming with no repercussion, its just mindless and anyone can do it. Although we do have less regen than other classes we just need to run more spirit, I run 1.4-1.6k spirit myself depending on the encounter and I don't run into difficulties because I THINK about what I need to do and the best course of action to maintain my mana while keeping the raid alive. Currently the only fight I can see us having mana trouble on is Blast Furnace because it is constant bursty damage which makes it very mana heavy to keep the raid up, other than that one fight we generally shouldn't have any problems.

As for DoC I strongly dislike the build and only take it on encounters that require little throughput for the majority of the fight currently I only take it on Iron Maidens and Beastlord because it does all the healing required in low damage phases and gives the raid a little more dps. We aren't forced to take this talent it is just beneficial on some fights and if you feel forced to take DoC you should consider improving your play-style to suit how Resto Druids work this expansion.

[Skyfall]

Yes, it would lead to healers only ever using their max throughput rotation but what's wrong about that? Using my best spells is way more fun than using stupid pointless fillers just to not run out of mana.

Even better: If mana was replaced by energy for healers then managing burst healing scenarios becomes way more interesting. Plenty of other games have a mana system that works more like energy does in WoW and are doing quite well with it.

Honestly, it really just sounds like you want to play a DPS not a healer. Mana-management is what makes healer gameplay interesting/challenging, and is something missing from (mostly) all dps specs. Healing is about good decision making in an encounter in a way that dps simply is not, and I think it would be foolish to homogenize the roles, and effectively just have everyone executing a dps rotation, just with some people casting heals instead of offensive spells. Druids are not in a bad place with mana, and would likely be grossly overpowered with unlimited mana. There is no reason to have innervate, it was just a button you pushed every two minutes, and baking that regen into your passive regen is simply better. The only thing innervate could do that could be remotely considered engaging gameplay was saving it for during a priests hymn to get more out of it (when it was still giving a fixed % of your mana) but even that is a reach, usually not terribly beneficial anyway, and hymn is gone from the game too so its irrelevant.

@OP: As someone said earlier, I'm not sure if youre saying you want more regen or if you want regen to be not purely passive. The latter is something I could see being interesting if it was executed right, but Innervate as it was is certainly NOT what I would consider active regen being executed properly. It was effectively purely passive regen anyway, just in bursts.

[Daez]

Honestly, I think there is two real options... you give innervate back and you cut passive regeneration or you keep passive regeneration and you get rid of innervate. If you are having real mana problems then stack more spirit. If you are having problems with mana because dps wants to stand in fire till they die and then yell, "where the fuck were my heals, lolz!" then that is a dps issue not a healing issue. Your job is to keep those that are taking non-preventable damage from dying from it not playing Captain Hero to Willstandinfirez.