BT vs RE vs RC

[Deleted]

Hello fellow death knights,

i fiddled around with the rune talents and i am a bit confused. im playing 2h frost, so im doing the following calculations in increments of 25 RP (1 FS). FS has a chance of 25*1.50% = 37.5% to activate RE resp. RC. Base Rune regen time is 10 sec (RC duration scales down to match). Hopefully the stuff is readable.

BT: 3 FS give 75 RP give 75/15 = 5 charges give 1 Death Rune.

RE: 1 FS gives 37.5%*1 + 62.5%*0 = 0.375 Runes, 2 FS give 37.5%^2*2 + 2*37.5%*62.5%*1 + 62.5%^2*0 = 0.75 Runes, 3 FS give 37.5%^3*3 + 3*37.5%^2*62.5%*2 + 3*37.5%*62.5%^2*1 + 62.5%^3*0 = 1.125 Runes.

RC: Same as RE, it just regens 0.9 Runes per proc. 1 FS gives 0.338 Runes, 2 FS give 0.675 Runes, 3 FS give 1.013 Runes.

Conclusion on 3 FS: BT gives 1 Rune, RE gives 1.125 Runes, RC gives 1.013 Runes.

I am not sure if this is correct or if it is, will it have any consequences?

Thanks for your attention!

Edit: 100%-37.5% is 62.5% not 72.5%, so the discrepancies are not so big anymore.

[Deleted]

Thing is the more haste we get, the better RC becomes due to the fact that the duration of the buff decreases due to haste, wich means you wont procc and overlapp the other duration.

also once u hit higher rune regen by the haste and icy talons, it will grant you a lot more than what you showed.

However the safetynet of rotation on frost without BT makes it so you gotta play diffrent a lot diffrent, and since KM is rng based on weapn swing.

well if KM wanna fuck you over you are fucked :P

with BT safe net, you solve that.

and thats the reason why BT is better, however the further into expact with more stats RC will actually become the best to use without a doubt, no questions asked, becuse we will come to the point where we have 4.5-5 second regen on our runes.

i think with full mythic bis gear, you will have around 6.2-6.4 rune regen. next tier around 6 or less, this means that you will be able to apply the proccs more often.

and regen a lot more. wich will in the sence make so you have a rune reset of all 3 runes, 2.5-3seconds witht he procc.

i have not done the exact math here but theoreticly RC will become best talent for frost.

When? well full mythic geared this raid tier i guess. or some minor gear from next raid tier, keep in mind there is atleast 2 more raid tiers this expansion.

[Schizoide]

I didn't read through your math, but according to sims, all 3 rune regen talents offer essentially identical performance. Additionally, all of them should be used passively in PvE DPS (including Blood Tap, which should be macroed to Frost Strike or Death Coil).

I do prefer macroed Blood Tap as Unholy, as it can mask orphan Frost runes when transitioning to/from AE, which isn't captured in sims. But that's a small point, and aside from that, it literally does not matter which one you pick.

[Challenge]

Pick the one you feel most comfortable with, playing with each one optimally is close enough that it doesnt matter.

[Brototype]

I think it's at a place where they are all so close using BT without it being 2nd nature would be a loss over say RC.

[Stacie]

I always just roll RC. Reason being is less chance of error so 1 less thing to focus on during a fight can only be a good thing. If i was Blood i would roll BT though just because i would have the runes when needed.

[Isolatez]

If you're playing Frost, I would say go with Blood Tap in order to ensure most of your KM procs are spent on Oblit. For Unholy however, BT can get really complicated and confusing when weaved in with stuff like Plague Leech, so I would say go with RC.

[Schizoide]

If you're playing Frost, I would say go with Blood Tap in order to ensure most of your KM procs are spent on Oblit

The correct answer is that it doesn't matter for Frost at all.

[Deleted]

The correct answer is that it doesn't matter for Frost at all.

Depends the amount of haste tbh, the lower haste you have, the better blood tap is.

[Schizoide]

Depends the amount of haste tbh, the lower haste you have, the better blood tap is.

Why? Please explain.

[Deleted]

Why? Please explain.

Haste effects the Regen of runes, haste also effects the duration of the RC Effect, wich means, its less likley for you to overlap the buff over the other,less downtime.

wich results in more APM.

Wich results in DPS gained, this results in more runes per minute and runic power generated per minute.

Since frost, is a class that never want to have 0 runes, always have some spare.

for lucky KM proccs.


But simple answer, haste increases the strenght of the RC procc effect, both how fast it grants you the runes, and how fast the buff goes away to not overlap RC procc.

How much haste needed before RC becomes better than BT i do not know, some math genious and tester could get the numbers out there for sure.

My guess is next tier of raid RC will be better than BT(for frost that is)

[Schizoide]

Nope.

RC duration does indeed inversely scale with haste, but base rune regen scales positively with haste. End result is that RC doesn't double-dip and benefit more from haste than RE or BT.

Also RC duration stacks, you can get a 12+ second long RC with RNG.

[Deleted]

Nope.

RC duration does indeed inversely scale with haste, but base rune regen scales positively with haste. End result is that RC doesn't double-dip and benefit more from haste than RE or BT.

Also RC duration stacks, you can get a 12+ second long RC with RNG.

wait what? when did they change that? that RC buff gets the old buffs duration stacked upon itself?

becuse it sure as hell was not like that in HM.

[Schizoide]

RC has worked as I described since the MoP beta.

[Ragnirok]

I use blood tap but i don't macro it to death coil. I actually try and save 10 charges and use 2 at once so as to not desync runes. Now you can't do this all the time but you just play it by ear. I couldn't imagine going RC while using necroblight. I need something else to press during the downtime.

[Maxweii]

RC has indeed worked as Schiz described, and it was defiantly working like that in HM. If you never got overlap you're just incredibly unlucky, or didn't notice the extension.

[Prag]

I don't need math to feel pretty confident that BT is the better choice for me. It provides a more controlled usage and after playing with it for a bit, I don't think I'm terrible at keeping it from capping. I think that, of all the talents, this series is closest to their stated goals for the talent tree revamp.

[Schizoide]

I completely and fundamentally disagree. I despise this talent tier, because it only offers players the illusion of choice-- it truly doesn't matter which talent you pick.

I want my choices to matter; they should change my gameplay or offer performance differentials. This tier doesn't do either one. (For DPS, anyway. Blood has a reason beyond personal preference to use manual Blood Tap.)

It's also super mathy and confusing to many players who refuse to believe that manual blood tap isn't rewarded by greater performance, and call everybody who macros it baddies. Runic Corruption mechanics are also challenging and unintuitive, as seen earlier in this very thread. These players are often progression raiders, ranking world-bests, and think that means they understand how the game works. But playing the game skillfully and understanding the underlying mechanics are two very different things. They don't necessarily intersect.

[Saiyendra]

Except it is. You could argue that the performance gain isn't significant, but it certainly exists.

[Schizoide]

Except it is. You could argue that the performance gain isn't significant, but it certainly exists.

It isn't zero. There, you won that internet argument, I hope you feel good about yourself.