Fix For Hearthstone Rush

[Deleted]

So if you let that warrior stack 30 armor he 1 shots you with shield slam? Priests have a 2 mana 5 damage nuke. Hunters are still hunters and everyone hates them

Execute face!

On serious note, rush decks are perfectly fine. Meta will be always with aggro(rush), midrange and control. If you lose against one type of deck, adjust yours. You can't beat all other decks with a single one.

[Ryme]

So if you let that warrior stack 30 armor he 1 shots you with shield slam? Priests have a 2 mana 5 damage nuke. Hunters are still hunters and everyone hates them

Nope, what is meant by that is by design there is no card that can be used on either minions or face, they can only ever do one or the other. So shield slam is still minions and face cards can be super cheap like mind blast.

[Deleted]

Execute face!

On serious note, rush decks are perfectly fine. Meta will be always with aggro(rush), midrange and control. If you lose against one type of deck, adjust yours. You can't beat all other decks with a single one.

No but you should have at least the possibility to be competitive not a f*ing lamb.

[Deleted]

No but you should have at least the possibility to be competitive not a f*ing lamb.

It's just a bad matchup. Have you ever played any other CCG? It's not just about the game, but the deck selection in current meta is a game of itself.

[Deleted]

It's just a bad matchup. Have you ever played any other CCG? It's not just about the game, but the deck selection in current meta is a game of itself.

Never seen QQ about Control or Mid decks just Vs aggro/rush decks , what does it mean?

[Ryme]

I'd quite like a Kharazan style adventure next, focused around spells adding a neutral pool of spells to the game. Rush is so rampant right now because fast answers to minion swarm don't exist, you're only real option is Wild Pyro and some cheap spells, even that is particularly slow and heavily card dependent.

Adding more spells designed around being efficient against minion swarm and poor elsewhere would be a lovely edition to the game.

[cadb]

Nerfs and buffs aren't the answer for card games. You just let the game grow on its own, eventually people are going to come up with something that beats what is popular and in turn that will gain popularity until someone else comes along with something else.

The fact is Hearthstone doesn't have enough mechanics in it, also 30 cards in a deck might have been fine before the expansions but right now it really shoehorns decks. By design, of course, they want short games.

[Ryme]

Eh, the problem is that we already have so many of those cards. The issue isn't so much the amount of cards but the fact that the game doesn't give you any way to reliably have them when you need them. You certainly wouldn't want half of your deck to end up just being different versions of Flamestrike, of course.

I disagree. I think you could argue that hunter, paladin and priest have "fast" answers to minion swarm, but I don't think anyone else does really and priest relies on a combo that takes out your own board most of the time as well.

[PPN]

Never seen QQ about Control or Mid decks just Vs aggro/rush decks , what does it mean?

Because they give one the chance to react, so even if they would be OP you feel like you made your decisions and maybe they were not optimal or you can still blame bad luck for you loss.

With rush decks its a different story. If they get the right opening hand it takes 0 skill to win. And you could have the super mega anti rush deck and still lose at turn 4. So it just ruins the game.

On the other hand i dont see why ppl play it. Someone said its because its "fast". Well, every game in HS is fast... i mean those few more mins, when you see how much time ppl spend on the game. I thought the fun apsect about a videogame is to have influence and control over a scenario. Rush decks dont apply to this..its just empty hand and lol. So if it woks out you win and the game was "yaaaaawn" and if you lose it was "double yaaaaawn". Thats why i deleted all rush decks again just after i tried them.

I rather lose with a funny deck then winning in braindead mode:P

[Sarevokcz]

I'd imagine the rapid meta adaptation is why this particular list is updated every week, summarizing the snapshot of what happens at high legendary ranks - which, as far as I've seen, is very insightful and accurate. I suppose you don't have to take the list seriously, but that's your choice ...

I mean, it'll probably not align very correctly with your own experiences especially if you aren't playing at a very high level. Back when I played starcraft, or wow arena, despite being in masters league/gladiator, my personal results would differ greatly from the generally accepted balance ratios (notable example being my PvZ winrate was like 35% when pros had over 55%), but I still would recognize that overall, at that point, the pros were correct and I was probably just doing something flat out wrong.

its useless simply because high legendary meta is changing every couple of hours. if freeze mage was strong thanks to the selection of decks yesterday and wa spopular, it will be tier3 the next day thanks to more people running control warrior... thats just how it is, ladder meta is alot more consistent that this, people arent switching decks every couple of games and the variance in the decks is alot bigger, thats why people play decks, that are consistently good on average against all kinds of decks, not just against couple of selected ones..

and again, if aggro mech shaman and oil rogue were super consistent to be tier1 decks, why nobody runs them on the ladder, when they arent any more expensive than mech mage to craft?

[kaiadam]

Uh, half my games are against oil rogue and mech shaman, what ...

(You'll note that's why there's the +/- system in the tier list as well, describing by how much and why they changed position since last week - they thought of everything!)

[May90]

Unacceptable, the only ppl who defend this kind of style are those are used/enjoy to play every cards at 1/2/3 mana cost.

Or those that know how to play and enjoy free wins. Rushes are so easy to counter with a good deck, it is almost painful to play against rushers - I fell their pain as my own, when I cast AOE spells and wipe all those 2/3 HP Murlocs/mechs.

[Ryme]

and again, if aggro mech shaman and oil rogue were super consistent to be tier1 decks, why nobody runs them on the ladder, when they arent any more expensive than mech mage to craft?

Aggro shaman and oil rogue is about 70% of my ladder experience. Currently, I think if you're not running oil rogue you're doing it wrong, it's so far ahead of the meta right now.

[mongoose6]

I'd quite like a Kharazan style adventure next, focused around spells adding a neutral pool of spells to the game. Rush is so rampant right now because fast answers to minion swarm don't exist, you're only real option is Wild Pyro and some cheap spells, even that is particularly slow and heavily card dependent.

Adding more spells designed around being efficient against minion swarm and poor elsewhere would be a lovely edition to the game.

I like this idea. Perhaps a spell that gains power with the amount of minions on the board. Throw in a reverse of that, a spell that's more powerful with less minions on the board. Perhaps a cheap hellfire type spell that doesn't damage heroes. Make the spells neutral.

[shammypie]

Nope, what is meant by that is by design there is no card that can be used on either minions or face, they can only ever do one or the other. So shield slam is still minions and face cards can be super cheap like mind blast.

so then how does fireball work as that card was made to either be a big minion removal or face damage nuke? Or does Antonidas give out "face" fireballs?

[Ladorian]

couldnt agree more

[Ryme]

so then how does fireball work as that card was made to either be a big minion removal or face damage nuke? Or does Antonidas give out "face" fireballs?

Like I said, it's too late for a change like this now - I know, I know, hindsight is always 20/20 - but I would prefer it if fireball was designed to only be able to hit one or the other and mana cost adjusted accordingly.

[Mormolyce]

I play priest control. I find Rush decks to be some of the easiest decks to play against.

I play zoo lock and control warrior. Rush isn't AS big a problem as it was pre-GvG but IMO some rush decks need to be looked at.

Also Handlock *cough*.

- - - Updated - - -

Nerfs and buffs aren't the answer for card games. You just let the game grow on its own, eventually people are going to come up with something that beats what is popular and in turn that will gain popularity until someone else comes along with something else.

I disagree, without ongoing balancing you eventually wind up fighting over ridiculous turn 3 kill plays as the mana curve gets more and more out of whack due to niche cards that are OP in the right combinations.

In Hearthstone it's not so much the rush that I object to as the amount of pure face damage that is easy to throw at your opponent even if they've stabilized.

Against Hunter in particular there's really no such thing as a "close game" thanks to that stupid hero power. Hell, we had a card in MtG that was similar in nature (Cursed Scroll) it was considered grossly overpowered at the time. So much so that it was banned in some formats. Of course, Hearthstone isn't MtG and there's a totally differnt dynamic to the game, but still...it's so easy to just throw gobs and gobs of unanswerable damage at your opponents face in this game that it's occasionally frustrating.

I stick by my "make Kill Command only hit minions" suggestion

But yeah the Hunter hero power is insanely strong, especially since Blizzard also gave them so many cheap rush-compatible cards.

Aggro shaman and oil rogue is about 70% of my ladder experience. Currently, I think if you're not running oil rogue you're doing it wrong, it's so far ahead of the meta right now.

I found both those decks pretty middle of the pack for performance personally.

Maybe I'll try Oil Rogue, I haven't had a decent Rogue deck for like a year.

[Deleted]

I would like Mech Warper to have its effect changed completely.

Leave him as 2/3 for 2
The card reads:
"Your other Mechs have a chance to receive Charge ( Less effective on powerful Mechs )"

The formula for the effect would be 100% - ((Mana Cost -2) x 20%)

So all Mechs up to 2-Cost would always have Charge if this minion is out
3-cost mech has 80% chance
4-cost mech has 60% chance
6-cost mech has 20% chance
7+ cost mech will never receive Charge from this card

I think this effect is more interesting than current one. Has some GvG RNG taste to it, doesn't make it possible to completely overrun the opponent on turn 3-4 by dumping your whole fucking hand and is actually combo card like tundra rhino (but cheaper and easier to combo)

I face almost nothing but mech mages on ladder lately. If they don't draw those in opening hand I can actually win but it's a struggle. The moment these fuckers pop up (at early turns) I might just concede to save time. It's silly.

[FobManX]

I would like Mech Warper to have its effect changed completely.

Leave him as 2/3 for 2
The card reads:
"Your other Mechs have a chance to receive Charge ( Less effective on powerful Mechs )"

The formula for the effect would be 100% - ((Mana Cost -2) x 20%)

So all Mechs up to 2-Cost would always have Charge if this minion is out
3-cost mech has 80% chance
4-cost mech has 60% chance
6-cost mech has 20% chance
7+ cost mech will never receive Charge from this card

I think this effect is more interesting than current one. Has some GvG RNG taste to it, doesn't make it possible to completely overrun the opponent on turn 3-4 by dumping your whole fucking hand and is actually combo card like tundra rhino (but cheaper and easier to combo)

I face almost nothing but mech mages on ladder lately. If they don't draw those in opening hand I can actually win but it's a struggle. The moment these fuckers pop up (at early turns) I might just concede to save time. It's silly.

That's overly complicated. No card in HS is that complex.

I would just change Mechwarper so that the next Mech you play has its mana reduced by 1, instead of all mechs. So you no longer have that nightmare scenario where on turn 5 you flood the board with Mechwarper, Annoyotron, and double Snow Chugga.