PvP Ret pally needs help

[Frederick93]

So, i guess from my guilds perspective im lacking Dmg in RBGs.

Any tips or tricks to help me get better sustained dmg?

Im running with Sanctified wrath(guild told me to go for, i also like it because avenging wrath lasts 30 seconds!) and Final Verdict.
But im seeing alot of people rolling Holy avenger for the extra 30%.

I am also stacking Mastery enchants, i have tried versatility but i don't see a huge difference.

[ProphetNoata]

Ummm. Your supposed to Run Long Arm/ Fist of Justice/Selfless Healer/Clemency/Holy Avenger/Holy Prism or Execution Sentence/Final Verdict. If your in an AoE situation make sure to weave in FV and DS. I believe Mastery and Vers and Multi are your best stats when crit and haste dont do anything for pvp.

[Rawrzillasor]

I'm not a fan if ha just because you can get cced and once its over you are no threat. I'm the minority that plays dp for consistent DMG and potential to burst

[Animefreak3K]

- Go on Versatility or Mastery
- Specc into Divine Purpose, Light's Hammer and Final Verdict (because of the huge AoE damage you're able to do!)
- Alternative to Selfless Healer, choose Sacred Shield
- Use Seal of Righteousness (AoE), also chance the your Seal if needed

[Frederick93]

I'm not a fan if ha just because you can get cced and once its over you are no threat. I'm the minority that plays dp for consistent DMG and potential to burst

I might seriously consider that, because every time i pop HA, no matter at the beginning, middle or end of the fight, i get stunned for days and theres nothing i can do about it, then my wings are gone and then im screwed.

[Animefreak3K]

That's a simple logic: After your burst comes - suprise! - Nothing....

Your enemies "only" must survive your burst, and you have to wait two minutes for your next try (to get killshot).


You can try to shorten all CC on you, with the glyphe "Hand of Freedom". The Buff (from the Glyphe) cannot be purged, and it will stack with our 2p-Bonus.
That means -50% CC-duration.

Use HoF, use your Burstmacro, and go.

[Frederick93]

I feel like the dmg out put in arenas and RBGs are totally different when it comes to pallys, maybe thats just me. but when you have 7 other dps throwing ccs left and right, the burst is just not as excruciating as it would be in Arenas.

If that makes any sense

[Rawrzillasor]

It is way different. That's like comparing pve equivalent of twin ogron vs tectus. Arenas are like two targets with a single target/ minimal cleave kill. Rbg are sometimes single target(p1) sometimes two target cleave (p2) and sometimes just a clusterpluck when you may still want to single target down a single target but do heavy aoe as well (p3 in mythic when finishing off the shards before focusing notes)

[Frederick93]

So if i were to get someones take on this... I feel like I do massive amount of dmg in Arenas, but in RBGs im in the middle range myabe 4th or 5th place, sometimes in 2nd. I was just kicked from my guild because my damage was not at the top the last 3 RBGs i ran with them, and they complained that the DK (Switches from blood to Frost depending on the BG) did more damage than i did, was that a justifiable answer? or ....what? (This was the reason why i posted this thread)

[Animefreak3K]

Have you tried out my tips?

Taking HA in Rated BG's isn't as good as in Arenas.

[Frederick93]

Would DP be more benficial ?

- - - Updated - - -

Have you tried out my tips?

Taking HA in Rated BG's isn't as good as in Arenas.

I was kicked out before i made this thread, my fault the wording was off

[Animefreak3K]

Would DP be more benficial ?

For overall damage, definitily.
For Burst, yes and no. HA is definitly the better choice, for having a higher chance of killing your target. Then your're mostly useless. That's why a DK will always out-dps you.

- Go on Versatility or Mastery
- Specc into Divine Purpose, Light's Hammer and Final Verdict (because of the huge AoE damage you're able to do!)
- Alternative to Selfless Healer, choose Sacred Shield
- Use Seal of Righteousness (AoE), also chance the your Seal if needed

Doing this, and timed the abilities correct, you can to a huge amount of AoE-damage. During Burst, you do pressure on your traintarget, and much AoE damage.

I was kicked out before i made this thread, my fault the wording was off

That's bad, i'm sorry. You should have asked before you were kicke out .

But to be honest, it looks like your RBG-Leader isn't a really good person....indead of kicking you out of the Team, he and your mates should've helped you...

[Omaski]

I can usually out-dps dks and even boomies in big team fights if i dont die and can stay on a target @ ~1750rating RBGs as RET.

im stacking as much mastery as i can, enchanting all mastery w/ weapon mastery proc enchant, plus with mastery trinket running DP / FV

Crazy pressure even when wings are not up

[Dmachine]

I feel as though Ret paladins should be specing the same in rbgs are the do in arena? Realistically you're not going to want pad the numbers with AoEs that could potentially break precious CC but instead look to burst individuals down. I personally am not a high rated RBG player (1756) but I have played in many high average rated groups.

I would Recommend holy avenger and Final Verdict for sure. With the 2 piece pvp set bonus / Freedom glyphs rets have atm being CC'd while using your burst (wing / holy a) won't be bad at all.

I'm not familiar with any high rated Rets that focus heavily on RBG, but I do know Sam (Vanguards) changes just his glyphs in RBGs.

The best advice I can give is this, don't use the damage board as a reference to how well you're going as a Ret. Rets are hybrid melee - having the ability to help keep their team alive with some serious burst available to them. If a healer is being trained - toss out a BoP, or Sac, or even a heal and make sure you're attacking the right kill target that the rest of your team is focusing.

Gl hf!

[Animefreak3K]

The problem in RBG is, that if your're speccing into HA, your're nearly useless for 2 minutes.
There's the difference to Arenas, where you can survive these 2 minutes, and than start the next Try to kill an enemy.
In RBG's, there're too many enemies, trying to kill you. And then 2 minutes can look like eternity .

The (basic) support is still the same, and doesn't really depent on the Talent.



Sure, you can break CC with AoE .

don't use the damage board as a reference to how well you're going as a Ret.

His Leader and companions did, that's the problem.

[Dmachine]

Yeah, definitely didn't sound like a good group.

Still feel like HA brings so much burst potential - When a leader forms a composition for RBGs and considers a ret paladin they wouldn't be expecting sustainable pressure consider other classes like dks and warriors do a much better job at that, but instead a big burst dealer for Flag returns and focus kill targets. When facing a competent RBG team healers won't get overwhelmed by consistent damage.

All the same I feel Rets aren't all that desirable for RBGs atm

[Strear]

Your RL is a moron. Simple. If you simply kick someone from RBGs for that, and forget all the support we bring, then I guess he's probably " tunnel brained ". We cannot be compared to a class multi-dotting or sharing melee damage. The board is an indication, but it must be interpreted, not taken for face value.

As some other brothers of light here, I go with mastery all the way.

Guys, frankly, when playing FC RBGs, give Seraphim a try. You're in the melee, ramping your HP, you hit 5 and then burst with your teammates ... believe me, it's very efficient. And the 30 sec CD is short enough to hit the enemy FC with a serie of " mini bursts " that hurt so badly because those peaks are boring to manage for healers.

I'll give DP a try, I often split HA and AW to have 2 bursts with trinket and hopefully a weapon enchant proc. What I always liked with DP, is the fact the enemy cannot manage your procs (you too, but ...) and it can be very funny.

Globally, I'm satisfied with our current state. More than ever, I feel we have the choice between talents/glyphs and can try several templates that can be optimized for several situations/comps. I really dislike the " Everyone must go this template ", thing I followed for many years without even trying ...

[Animefreak3K]

Still feel like HA brings so much burst potential

And that's still the problem. It's the third Addon, were Rets have this massivly bursty-play. That's a) boring and b) we're mostly usefull in these 18/20 seconds.
Blizzard said, They want to tone down the burst, they did it in one way (Critreduced damage; down to 150%) but some talents (e.g. HA) are so powerful, that other talents are in most situations kinda useless.

A Ret is in an RBG only taken because of it's Burst. The Support can bringt a Holy (still) too. That's what we talked to blizzard, for having something, that it is a good option, to bring a ret into an RBG. They "buffed" our substainded damage through FV+DS (procc). But it's too random (much), Divine purpose doesn't bringt a second "buff" with it - compared with HA and SW.

I've talked with two RBG-Leaders ~2k - a ret is only good for the burst, because there's still nothing that comes after that. The support brings a holy paladin too. The only difference to MoP is, that our burst is much heavier than in MoP.

But Blizzard wanted to tone down the burst <.< .


This totally shouldn't be a problem for me, because i'm an assistent in our RBG-Group. We're friends and don't really look at something like that. Playing non professional (2x warrior, 2x Ret, 2x DK for e.g.^^), we're now at 1.750 MMR. We want fun, not high ratings. But problems, etc. are still the same.

But this topic something i mention in another thread here, on the german forums (Paladin, rated pvp), to the Devs on Twitter, and on my YT-Channel.
I still hope, that some people wake up and do something...