Why do PuG raids fail?

[Shadowsedge]

As a dedicated raider looking to find ways to gear my toon better I look to LFG to find raids. I'm not a raid leader, just a participator. The question is, Why do so many of the groups I join fail?. I know I can do my job to a very well standard. Why is it that the built in group finder makes it harder for people to be successful?

[Deleted]

A lot of people 'know' they can do their job to a very well standard even though they really can't, is the main reason I think.

[jsz]

Everyone in the queue wants to be carried. No one wants to do the carrying.

No one also wants to actually progress in LFG like a normal raid group would. If one group they find can't one-shot a boss, they'll hop to the next group in the list looking for their kill.

[SlippyCheeze]

As a dedicated raider looking to find ways to gear my toon better I look to LFG to find raids. I'm not a raid leader, just a participator. The question is, Why do so many of the groups I join fail?. I know I can do my job to a very well standard. Why is it that the built in group finder makes it harder for people to be successful?

Simple: raiding at normal and above requires coordination and cooperation. You have to make sure that healers, tanks, and DPS all do the right thing at the right time. Throwing a random group of people together, even people who are individually very good at what they do, doesn't have the instinctive coordination that a team who practice together week after week does.

(Example: our mages know exactly which healer CD they pair their amp with. Nobody needs to tell them, they never overlap, etc. That isn't gonna happen if they pug, because the other mages and the healers are different, right?)

Add to that people who expect it to be super-fast, and have no patience for wiping, or some people who are not trying their hardest, etc, and maybe it becomes clear why they fall down on the coordination requirement. (Especially the non-voice pugs.)

[Avada Kedavra]

it comes down to the leaders. If there is no strong leader then its going to fail. If people know they dont have to be accountable then their performance will reflect that.

If the lead is actually leading then its usually sucessful. Leading might mean replacing people and frequently if they are just there for a carry.

If a lead is not doing their job, then the pug will fail.

[Kazuchika]

As a dedicated raider looking to find ways to gear my toon better I look to LFG to find raids. I'm not a raid leader, just a participator. The question is, Why do so many of the groups I join fail?. I know I can do my job to a very well standard. Why is it that the built in group finder makes it harder for people to be successful?

Because people have this ridiculous assumption that grouping with a bunch of complete strangers will yield one shots all around.

[Gandrake]

because people suck and one shot mechanics require coordination that players are not willing to make an effort to coordinate

[DarkstarG]

People think that just because they can get through LFR that they can raid. This is false..... The mechanics needed for normals and above aren't needed at all in LFR (or they are barely needed at all)... the damage output of boss abilities hardly does any damage at all. Seriously unless the raid is asleep 3/4 of them can AFK and still get through it. In normals and up..... you need to do x amount of dps/healing etc minimum AND be where you are required and not stand in stuff. You can afford to lose a couple people but beyond that, forget it.

[Deleted]

Lack of communication, no synergy as a team.... & generally people in a pug will be playing an alt. Most people lack the awareness/muscle memory they have with mains. Combination of all those things.

If people are in pugs with mains then they're probably not good players either.

[Teebone]

Its basically join a guild or die trying now. My guild blows. But they are family. Not willing to go through the drama of hopping. LFR getting neutered blows hardcore too. Honestly, the raiding this game has isn't worth it anymore. The lack of decent solo or small group content hurts even more.

[Epicpopsicle]

So far I have not had a bad experience, in fact I have made many friends who ..show up every week to raid together. Granted we are not min/max types but we have fun and are slowly growing as a group. we started with 5 people and are now up to 17 and getting better each week. I would keep joining till you find people you get along with.

[Teebone]

So far I have not had a bad experience, in fact I have made many friends who ..show up every week to raid together. Granted we are not min/max types but we have fun and are slowly growing as a group. we started with 5 people and are now up to 17 and getting better each week. I would keep joining till you find people you get along with.

There are legions of people envious with you right now.

[xfreeder]

1. Many pugs lack a raidleader. I see people forming groups, posting some voiceserver and then think they are done. Everyone searches for "xp" and everyone has it or fakes to have it and expect that everything works by itself.

2. Everyone wants to be carried. No one wants to carry. Everything must be one-shot.

3. No one makes mistakes. Everyone has a giant set of excuses for everything. I have seen people dying in the easiest mechanics and then blaming some low dps/hps or how the tanks are tanking or everything else but not their own faults. This makes the whole pug angry and if the raidleader doesn't react to this this makes people leave.

4. Raids take time because wipes can always happen. People don't realize this and queue up for "heroic gruul/oregorger/beastlord/hanz&franz" and have 45min until their mum calls for dinner and they have to go.

5. The LFG-System allows important roles to whore around like shit. As a tank/heal i have a grp searching for me for every boss at any given time. This leads to the weirdest shitpugs i have ever seen in my now 10 years of playing wow. We wipe on a boss two times then one tank two heals and the top three dps leave, we search for new people while they wipe two more times with another grp and then queue again in our grp. W T F. This wednesday i was in a nhc clear group with my twink rogue and it was a bit rocky we needed some time to adjust because one tank was completly new to brf and i swear we had some dps leaving our grp for two times after they got fed up only to requeue after we killed the next boss.

6. Many people can't talk in voice. And they are always the idiots who fail every mechanic. When you call them out they answer in chat. Everyone gets angry. I don't care if you sound like a 12 year old or are an autistic sociopath that hates speaking to other people if you join a raid with voice then talk. The amount of people with headsets that just broke before the raid is astonishing.

[pankind]

Raid leaders want the benefit of being leader without the responsibility of leading the raid.

[Teebone]

So because you raid with people who are terrible the raiding is bad? Sound logic.......

Actually its both. This tier has been... unfulfiling.

[TheTaurenOrc]

No reason for them to really, but it has became a byproduct of the general community's poor attitude towards each other. I dont know about today but a few years ago pugs were pretty much the standard way of raiding on Asian servers, and I am talking to server firsts not lets clear to the 4th boss and disband kind of raiding. Given that wasn't totally 25 randoms more like a mix of 3-4 small guild groups, and more common because of the game time format.

People are just lazy, intolerant, needy and want the path of least resistance to their rewards. The attitude has shifted from wanting to complete the content and dare I say it maybe even help some other player along the way, to a smash and grab for rewards. This is exacerbated by the fact that most people pug with alts so it not a priority either.

[wachimingo]

90% of the pug raid leaders are undergeared noobs that want to be carried.

[MoanaLisa]

As a dedicated raider looking to find ways to gear my toon better I look to LFG to find raids. I'm not a raid leader, just a participator. The question is, Why do so many of the groups I join fail?. I know I can do my job to a very well standard. Why is it that the built in group finder makes it harder for people to be successful?

Ironically it's because everyone expects a pug group to solidify first thing and to be successful first time out. Mostly people believe as you do that they can do their job to a high standard. And maybe that's true. But timing and teamwork are a thing, too. A good raid should be a little bit more than X people doing their jobs correctly. If you've got people in your raid group that want to be carried, blame the raid leader. He let them in.

[Radish Spirit]

PuG raids fail for precisely the opposite reason that guild raids succeed.

[Daetur]

PuG raids fail for precisely the opposite reason that guild raids succeed.

They don't have a "You're Fired!" rank to threaten people with?


In all seriousness, though, my guess would be that it comes down to PUGs often lacking two things: A raid leader willing to lead, and a group willing to follow direction.