I am sick tired of the villain always losing

[Candy Cough]

*Spoiler*


Im so tired of villain always losing.

Illidan and Kil'jaeden? Oh they just got their ass handed to them by some Adventurers. Lets face it, Jaina, thrall, Tyrande AND malfurion got their asses handed to them by the scourge. Kil'jaeden had Incredibly powerful demons at his disposal, yet the fail to defeat 25 random people. Whereas the scourge in Mount hyjal managed to defeat armies. Lich king fell short aswell. 10 years he had to take Northrend, he manged to capture a 1/8 of it... EVEN while we march in and build a camp in the North (Tournament) The lichking doesent have the forces to deal with that little place. In icecrown we fight his most powerful commanders, yet he gets nothing but defeat all the time.

We finally become defeated by the lich king, the Tirion jumps out of fucking no where and kills Arthas. He had us, then he's just going to lose? WHAT IS THIS?! Then we have the cataclysm, where deathwing just literally broke the planet from coming out of it. Tell me, why the hell didnt deathwing destroy stormwind when he was there? What the hell did deathwing do for TWO YEARS untill we finally defeated him? My god. Oh then we face Lei shen, a fucking pushover thats as strong if not stronger than the lich king, and he falls to a fucking scout team. What a joke. And Garrosh That sets up everything, yet he fails. Sha which are the remnants of A GOD are defeated by 5 people all the time. Oh fun fact? The horde and the alliance manage to fight against each other, defeat yogg'saron and take on the Lich king AT THE SAME TIME.

Then we come to WoD and it's even worse than ever.

Grommash stands up, and throws threats at us. We're forced to flee. What disgusts me is that when we fight kargath. We take out 99 orcs without ANYONE becoming wounded what so ever. Kilrogg and his forces have problems taking down 1 goon... And blackhand fails to do anything. Ner'zhul is even worse as he is not even capable of fighting us, he just teleports away in fear. Blackhand fails, everyone fails. Shadowmoon valley? EVERYTHING Ner'zhul does fails. Traitors in the Draenei Fails. COMBINED with Ner'zhul they still fail. Ner'zhul calls down the darkstar that suposedly takes out all life. That fails too and Velen sacrifices himself. What does Ner'zhul do? Well he has failed the Iron horde and they're pissed. he leave the remains of his clan to be killed by the Iron horde and flees to some burial grounds where he is killed by 5 commanders. I thought the warlords were suposed to be powerful, not push overs.

Talador is garbage aswell. The demons are fucking everywhere and the Ironhorde aswell. Yet again our forces kicks their butts and manage to kill milions of orcs. They push trough another thousand orcs and fight Blackhand. I mean come one. They had control of Karabor, then we just roll in on a star and kill them all while Khadgar pauses them out. We fight Blackhand, suposedly one of the most powerful warlords. Sure he managed to kill Maraad. BUt lets face it. Durotan and Yrel are weaklings and We arent even apparent. How come Blackhand fails to defeat a girl that never has taken a life. or a old chieftain that he was about to kill? My god.

In Arak we take form of a raven lord, guess what. He almost managed to kill Kargath. One of the orcs that slew 100 other orcs for his freedom. then he slew 100's of ogres more to have his freedom. Then when we fight him in Highmaul he dies to 25 nobodies. KARGATH, THE ONE WHO SLEW OVER 100 ORCS FOR HIS FREEDOM, THE ORC THAT SLEW THE RAVEN KING. He wipes as the first boss in the raid.

I get garrosh, it was not so much of a challenge but still. We used all our forces in Nagrand, how come they failed to take anything in the other zones while we fought Garrosh?

Garrison campaings are no different.

We go out, kill LEADER of the sargerai faction, no problem, no losses
We go out, kick the butt of the iron hordes newest warlord SINGLEHANDEDLY
The warlords discuss their plans infront of us, what a bunch for idiots.
We manage to take out about everything they throw at us. We of course survive a Goren filled cave, by magically being sent up in the air
We magically manage to take down one of the most powerful beings on Draenor, WITH the support of the Iron horde. No losses no problems.
We KILL the newest Warlrod of the Iron horde SINGLEHANDEDLY, AGAIN.
Then we meet Grommash, and he's too fucking scared to face our armies. He had the Iron horde there, then he just backs off and says: "Hey lets meet in patch 6.2 it will be fun."
Every single warlord has fallen aside from Grommash and Kilrogg. Kilrogg is no threat as he fucking struggled against a blood infused orc.

Im sick tired of this, we beat them all the time, they NEVER stand a chance. Can't we for once get a boss that is capable of Beating us?

Give us Kil'jaeden, the one who is on power with archimonde. Archimonde, the one who defeated the forces of Azeroth alone, but was foolish enough to die from an artifact. Give us Azshara who could take control of us with a snap of her fingers. The one who Rivaled Archimonde and Kil'jaeden in power 10,000 years ago. The one that has a old god backing her up. The ruler of the Naga. (Lets face it, Vash'jir is the only zone EVER, that we failed at, we failed at everything there.)
Make us lose a raid ffs. Make it so that Azshara defeats us in a raid then we have a rematch later or something. JUST MAKE THE VILLAIN WIN FOR ONCE, You dont have to break the game because a villain wins. Thats some real garbage. Im begginning to dislike wow lore.
Oh but guess what, In legacy of the void, Raynor and his 40 raiders are going to find a way to beat the shit out of a Xel'naga, one that forged the universe. and the hybrid that kicks kerrigans ass singelhandedly.

Blizzard, get your shit together. When will the Villains win like in Diablo 1/2, Brood war and Warcraft 3?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Thanks for spoiling the garrison campaign for us buddy.

- - - Updated - - -

Villians don't always lose in Warcraft, but yes we could do with some more good guys not always winning to at least keep a pretense of tension, possible failure.

[Jester Joe]

Thanks for spoiling the garrison campaign for us buddy.

- - - Updated - - -

Villians don't always lose in Warcraft, but yes we could do with some more good guys not always winning to at least keep a pretense of tension, possible failure.

Even with the spoilers, they missed the giant army supporting them in the last part of the garrison campaign.

Also, there is one area where you technically lose, that ICC dungeon where you have to run from the Lich King as an encounter.

That being said, in the end, the bad guys really can't win....what's the point of playing as the heroes then?

[TylerWildstar]

While I don't think the "good guys" need to win 100% of the time, it feels really bad and demoralizing to do a bunch of effort in the game, only to get a "twas only a setback".

[Deleted]

Thanks for spoiling the garrison campaign for us buddy.

People have been able to complete it for weeks now.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

People have been able to complete it for weeks now.

Doesn't mean everyone, or the majority have completed it yet.

[Dispraise]

Thanks for spoiling the garrison campaign for us buddy.

You made it that far into a wall of text that is quite obviously summing up story points without realizing that it might contain spoilers?

My eyes started glazing over in the third paragraph, and my mind wandered before I had reached that point. Effectively, you spoiled the garrison campaign for me.

[Jester Joe]

You made it that far into a wall of text that is quite obviously summing up story points without realizing that it might contain spoilers?

My eyes started glazing over in the third paragraph, and my mind wandered before I had reached that point. Effectively, you spoiled the garrison campaign for me.

Whoa, some of us have attention spans.

[mickybrighteyes]

so... villains aren't supposed to lose?

when they don't lose it's called a 'set back' or 'phase transition'... or WIPES

[Dispraise]

Whoa, some of us have attention spans.

No you don't. You're a cat.

[bmjclark]

I agree it's kind of silly. There really isn't even any kind of guess work in the stories in WoW. You pretty much just know that the story is going to end with you gathering 19 of your guildies and killing X bad guy now a days. I honestly think wow even managed to make the LK seem like a pushover in the quests, you pretty much just went around messing up his plans in northrend while he said "i'll get you next time" at the end of every major quest (i think it's just that he showed up way to much we gives me that feeling). I wouldn't mind an ending to WoD where we lose and flee draenor as the legion destroys it just to mix things up a bit :P

[procyan]

This is going to come off as douchy, but that's okay. If you want the bad guys to win, you can delete your character when you wipe. I don't really see any other way how the bad guys can win, since the point of the game is to beat them, whoever the bad guy is at the moment. Everyone knew they would eventually kill Arthas when vanilla first came out and they were fans of WC3. It would have been really stupid if he won, credits rolled, and that was the end of WoW

[Sanguinerd]

Yeah so far the big bad warlords havn't really impressed. They pretty much seem weaker than us really - I mean, our player characters could just as easily murder 100s of random npcs. Not to mention we've done far more impressive things than any of the warlords.

Look at Grommash; all he did was survive being starved and kill some Ogre leader, he then delivered the killing blow on a demon lord - nothing we havn't done either. Sure he's a skilled fighter but there's no reason to fear him as he is now, infact there was no reason to fear any of the Iron Horde. They're just Orcs, only a bit stronger.

[Jester Joe]

No you don't. You're a cat.

Drats, foiled again.

Onto the next thread.

[Kaleredar]

Considering that the game isn't just supposed to end, the villains can't "win."

Arthas is the villain that came closest to winning, and you can pretty easily see the consequences had he won... He was about to take over the world. Everyone pack it in; Arthas won. WoW is over.

That can't exactly happen.

[Zyranthian]

It would be kinda cool if there was a raid encounter where you did actually fail to beat the boss and had to just try and escape with your lives. Like fighting Grom at the end of WoD and first few phases are just fighting him then Burning Legion reinforcements show up and you realise, we can't beat these guys, we need to get out of here, and the last phase of the fight is a big epic fighting withdrawal where you're just trying to escape alive, and an opportunity for Khadgar to be a badass and pull off some epic escape plan.

Then it could lead straight into the next expansion where you're already on the back foot and the legion is steamrolling everything and you need to find new sources of power and allies and stuff to fight back and make a heroic last stand, Warcraft 3 styles.

[Kaleredar]

It would be kinda cool if there was a raid encounter where you did actually fail to beat the boss and had to just try and escape with your lives. Like fighting Grom at the end of WoD and first few phases are just fighting him then Burning Legion reinforcements show up and you realise, we can't beat these guys, we need to get out of here, and the last phase of the fight is a big epic fighting withdrawal where you're just trying to escape alive, and an opportunity for Khadgar to be a badass and pull off some epic escape plan.

They did that... it was called Halls of Reflection.

[Spraxle]

If the world changed every time something happened it would be a lot easier to implement segments where the villain wins. But because the world has to reflect X number of years of content or whatever it won't happen. If you want to see a villain win I would suggest looking into something other then WoW or really any other game (except maybe like inFamous where you can go full dark side and 'win as the villain').

Books, comics, other forms of semi-interactive art are where you will find things like the villains 'winning'.

[McNeil]

I'd love to see AU Azeroth in its full glory. So what I would like to see is that when Tanaan and Iron Citadel finally gets released, that the Iron Horde will actually win and drive you out of the zone after trying to defeat Grommash. Then in the next expansion, they launch a full assault to AU Azeroth.

Villains need to win sometimes, or they just aren't intimidating at all. Most movies have the same problem.

[Dequanacus]

Considering that the game isn't just supposed to end, the villains can't "win."

Arthas is the villain that came closest to winning, and you can pretty easily see the consequences had he won... He was about to take over the world. Everyone pack it in; Arthas won. WoW is over.

That can't exactly happen.

I wouldn't mind a patch (not an xpac)where we consistently lose. Instead of just steamrolling through a new continent that is completely fortified by the enemy, perhaps we win a small victory, and in doing so, poke the beehive and have a massive army sent at us. We could spend the majority of the questing keeping our invasion force from being completely wiped off the continent, going into certain places, getting our job done, and getting the hell out before the ever looming bad guy shows up.

It always seems silly that we can set up so many massive fortifications without losing any of them or seeing any real resistance. If we spent maybe the first patch of WoTLK having one or two large bases that require constant defending, and the closer we got to Icecrown the more we saw of our side being completely overrun, it would have made the LK look like much more of a threat.

Having all these massive settlements the second we landed in Northrend made the Lich King look pretty shitty. How was he going to take over the world when he couldn't even sink a floating rock that's right outside his citadel?

- - - Updated - - -

I'd love to see AU Azeroth in its full glory. So what I would like to see is that when Tanaan and Iron Citadel finally gets released, that the Iron Horde will actually win and drive you out of the zone after trying to defeat Grommash. Then in the next expansion, they launch a full assault to AU Azeroth.

Villains need to win sometimes, or they just aren't intimidating at all. Most movies have the same problem.

I don't see much hope for Grom unless Kil'jaeden (not "I'm putting 99.9% of my power into getting through the Sunwell" Kil'jaeden) himself shows up. I almost feel bad for the Iron Horde. Garrosh basically decided that if he was going to die, he'd take most of the pre First/Second/Third war orcs with him.