Federal vs. State vs. Local

[Stormdash]

On the sovereignty of the several states, I would add that while the states may, by Constitutional operation, effectively dissolve and rebuild the central government from the ground up, the reverse is not true; the federal government has no mechanism by which to dissolve a state, to kick it out, or anything else. Obdigore nailed the description, but I would qualify that the "highest is rightest" principle for the relationship between the federal and state governments is (unlike between state and local governments) explicitly limited to those specific areas that the Constitution empowers the federal government to act.

[Elegiac]

Residual powers should revert to the federal government - historically federalism has caused vastly more problems than it has prevented.

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Sounds like it's time for secession.

Which is illegal, so...

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The US sovereignty is derived by delegation of state sovereignty to it, Endus. That is the source of the federal government's power and, indeed, its legitimacy to govern at all. By mutual assent of the states, that government was given special dominion over the finite areas over which it was given power, that is the Supremacy Clause meaning and purpose, but you have the entire flow of power backwards. "Sovereignty" is what it is. The states used their own to create that of the federal government, not the other way around.

Which has not been anything more than a perfunctory truth since the Civil War. The only reason federalism still persists is because the American political system is structured very poorly towards any sort of change without finding loopholes.

[Belize]

The issue isn't really about "Home Rule", but rather about "What kind of home rule". While Texas is a deep Red State, its major cities (which happen to be utterly under represented in their own state legislature), seem to have Blueish inclinations, especially places like Austin.

There is a very good reason for diluting the voting power of certain groups of people via gerrymandering. You drown out their voices, and create a legislature which fits a certain political scheme you approve of.

The 4 major cities in Texas are Blue (Houston, Austin, Dallas, San Antonio) and so is Jefferson County (City of Beaumont) and the border with Mexico is blue. About Home Rule however, the 10th protects that.

[Elegiac]

The 4 major cities in Texas are Blue (Houston, Austin, Dallas, San Antonio) and so is Jefferson County (City of Beaumont) and the border with Mexico is blue. About Home Rule however, the 10th protects that.

It protects it about as much as 'everything that is not an orange is a non-orange' is a profound truth.

The reality is that even the strict enumeration of the Constitution grants the Federal government vast powers, let alone its implied powers. What is left can be easily got via monetary extortion.

[Felya]

Anyone who bitches about government being too big, but only means federal, is a hypocrite.

[Elegiac]

Anyone who bitches about government being too big, but only means federal, is a hypocrite.

Plus I don't see what a government's 'size' has to do with anything. In a country of 320+ million people of course you're going to have a 'big' government.

[Risale]

Please note that the following is not a nation bashing post, I want that to be clear from the start.

I live in the EU and from my standpoint the whole EU is a clusterfuck with each individual country having its own laws and they sorta try to have laws in place together, which well doesn't work.
Now after reading some of the stuff in this thread I get the feeling that compaired to you guys in the US the whole EU is a well oiled machine that works.

For me it is just weird to see that a city (like Austin) or even a state (Texas) can have rules that are not laid down by the central government (federal level) and get away with it.

Correct me if I am wrong on this but at one point in US history it went from "These United States" to "The United States" now if it was still the former then yes I could understand it or at least compare it to what the EU more or less stands for, but if it is now today the latter shouldn't a city & state just shut the fuck up and do as they are told by the federal government.

Feel free to educate me on this as this is something I actually like to know because well at the moment it just makes as much sense as Justin Bieber.

[Felya]

Plus I don't see what a government's 'size' has to do with anything. In a country of 320+ million people of course you're going to have a 'big' government.

I want a government as small as possible... Hight limit of 4 feet tall...

[Elegiac]

Feel free to educate me on this as this is something I actually like to know because well at the moment it just makes as much sense as Justin Bieber.

As I said, the American political system is not very well equipped to effect changes or corrections to its structure. This is why they continue to use the electoral college despite it being an extraordinarily stupid idea.

[Reeve]

The 4 major cities in Texas are Blue (Houston, Austin, Dallas, San Antonio) and so is Jefferson County (City of Beaumont) and the border with Mexico is blue. About Home Rule however, the 10th protects that.

Fort Worth is red. The 10th protects the home rule of the states. It doesn't protect the home rule of the cities within the states.

[Elegiac]

Fort Worth is red. The 10th protects the home rule of the states. It doesn't protect the home rule of the cities within the states.

Nor should it considering that governments have a nasty tendency to be more corrupt the more local it gets.

[Belize]

Fort Worth is red. The 10th protects the home rule of the states. It doesn't protect the home rule of the cities within the states.

Fort Worth isn't in the top 4 big cities. And cities are usually given quite a bit of lenience by the states.

[BrerBear]

Wasn't surprised at all to see this thread was about Austin.
This has been going on a long time. When I lived in Austin in the mid-90s, it was constantly having its environmental regulations smashed by the state legislature. All the while the state reps touted the beauty of "local government" whenever the nation did something they didn't like.

Texans' hypocrisy is surpassed only by their egos.

Did the Republicans ever manage to rip the statewide prosecutorial authority away from the Travis County DA, the way they've wanted to for decades?

[Reeve]

Please note that the following is not a nation bashing post, I want that to be clear from the start.

I live in the EU and from my standpoint the whole EU is a clusterfuck with each individual country having its own laws and they sorta try to have laws in place together, which well doesn't work.
Now after reading some of the stuff in this thread I get the feeling that compaired to you guys in the US the whole EU is a well oiled machine that works.

For me it is just weird to see that a city (like Austin) or even a state (Texas) can have rules that are not laid down by the central government (federal level) and get away with it.

Correct me if I am wrong on this but at one point in US history it went from "These United States" to "The United States" now if it was still the former then yes I could understand it or at least compare it to what the EU more or less stands for, but if it is now today the latter shouldn't a city & state just shut the fuck up and do as they are told by the federal government.

Feel free to educate me on this as this is something I actually like to know because well at the moment it just makes as much sense as Justin Bieber.

The fight isn't over whether or not they do what they're told. Most of the time they do. The fight is over whether or not they should be allowed to have the leeway to do things they weren't told to do but were also not forbidden from doing, at least in the case of Texan cities.

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Fort Worth isn't in the top 4 big cities. And cities are usually given quite a bit of lenience by the states.

Maybe not in the top 4, but it's a damned big city. Not too much smaller than Dallas, and really a part of the Dallas Metro area.

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And cities are usually given quite a bit of lenience by the states.

Currently they have home rule. The state is trying to revoke that.

http://therecordlive.com/2015/02/24/...tys-authority/

[Dispraise]

Local government should have the authority to act on the behalf of it's constituents, and on matters for which that division of power would be most efficient.

[Stormdash]

Which is illegal, so...

I asked earlier -- why is it just completely wrong to lobby for secession which is tacitly illegal but okay to lobby against, say, firearm ownership? Or abortion? Or for or against heteronormative marital restrictions? Advocacy is... advocacy. Laws (dun dun DUN!) can be changed.

The Supreme Court could reverse the tacit prohibition of secession and it would be legal; a constitutional amendment could be ratified explicitly permitting it and it would be legal.

Which has not been anything more than a perfunctory truth since the Civil War. The only reason federalism still persists is because the American political system is structured very poorly towards any sort of change without finding loopholes.

That, and because it's objectively superior way to govern a large ethnically and culturally heterogeneous society, and very modular.

Anyone who bitches about government being too big, but only means federal, is a hypocrite.

For myself, I think "banning plastic bags" is asinine public policy regardless of who is implementing it. Just was chiming in to explain why a state government can trump a local in contexts when the federal government can't trump a state.

Plus I don't see what a government's 'size' has to do with anything. In a country of 320+ million people of course you're going to have a 'big' government.

Or lots and lots of small governments. Nothing about the size of the population requires, nor for that matter is helped by a bloated and topheavy central government.

Local government should have the authority to act on the behalf of it's constituents, and on matters for which that division of power would be most efficient.

Now that I'm not on my phone, I'll quote the relevant section of Federalist 45 --

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

[Dispraise]

Feel free to educate me on this as this is something I actually like to know because well at the moment it just makes as much sense as Justin Bieber.

The thing is, the US is a very large and diverse place, both in population and geography. A single all-encompassing rulebook would be cumbersome. E.G., it doesn't make sense for a lawmaker in the capitol to decide on the water and irrigation rights for a small city on the other side of the country. Each state has it's own rulebook to better reflect the concerns of the populace. The federal government sets the framework the states operate on and prevents overreach, while seeing to the interests of the nation as a whole.

[Kellhound]

I prefer states having the most power. Federal is too big and cities are too small.

[Reeve]

I prefer states having the most power. Federal is too big and cities are too small.

Goldilocks Government?

[TrumpIsPresident]

Plus I don't see what a government's 'size' has to do with anything. In a country of 320+ million people of course you're going to have a 'big' government.

Big Government is a metaphor for the amount of control government exerts over your life and the amount of power it determines it needs.

Government regulating that your food be safe to eat versus government stepping in forbidding your child to eat the brown-bag lunch you prepared for them.

Government running an accountable operation versus a massive bureaucracy the private sector could do better, and cheaper.

That sort of thing.