Methods Worlds first video

[scwasp]

It's still very underwhelming mechanics wise. They could have done a lot more. Such an epic boss, such a boring upscaled heroic version.

I'm sure when I'm on it in a few weeks, it will tense as hell and lot more exciting than the video, but compared to mythic imperator it's a flop.

Kinda funny since most guilds seem to think impregnator was 10+ minutes of boredom just to get to the interesting/important part.

[Deleted]

Imperator was a horrible and boring boss. Pretty sure everyone in our guild hates that fight.

[Tojara]

I liked Imperator too, but there is something grueling and not fun about doing 10 minutes of an encounter to progress on the hardest part of the encounter.

Sometimes encounters don't need to be changed that much to be exciting on Mythic, and thank god they don't always make bosses that are 15 minutes long for a first kill. It would get predictable and furthermore it would be really frustrating to progress on. We would have sucked it up, but I don't think anybody in my guild would have enjoyed Imperator 2.0 encounter length for Blackhand, especially if the order of difficulty was at the end of the encounter again.

[Rekrul]

fight looks insane.

[unholyness]

seen a feral druid and windwalker killed it

This is what held other progression guilds back, having too many melee. I have never understood Guild leaders, if you are a true progression guilds, you never, ever have many melee. I think they were two melee and none were on the meters...will people ever learn?

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A lot of the problem other progression guilds were also having was attempting to take too much melee, which makes no sense. This fight right here is why melee should always have a geared range alt since most of the time, range is going to be much better for progression.

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I can't discribe how much I hate the fact, that you need a very special class-setup for this boss.
And no, better gear wouldn't allow a 'normal' setup. Go ahead and soak P3 smash with your whole raid, or clean all the bullshit stuff without immunitys to them.
I just can't see how that was the plan behind it and I also can't see, how you would deal with mines, smash und co. the intendet way.

Either nerfs (or call it adjustments) are comming, or this will be a huge guild destroyer, as they disband pretty quick these days.

Melee should always have range alts since 90% of the time range is going to be much better for progression, which has only been the case for years. A normal setup as you call it for a true progression guild is going to either have more range, which is how you win, or geared range alts from alt runs.

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I mean, bombs can be soaked by a multitude of classes, and while three rogues may not be the norm for a 20 man guild, having alternating soak groups wouldn't be completely out of the question. They're not going to design a fight that can be optimally done by 10 arms warriors or 15 mages or something. Class stacking and diversity will always be a thing because different classes have abilities that can cheese things like this. If your mythic guild doesn't have a rogue or mage or spriest then that's kinda on you (all three of those classes can soak bombs and just get a bop for demolition ideally, unless I'm missing something huge). Gear will fix the need for boomkins and hunters (lower dps requirement in P1 and for balconies).

Exactly, if you dont have one of the top dps classes, mage, or the other classes, then you are more of a casual guild than a progression guild which then you would accept that you are going to probably take all tier to clear mythic, if you do.

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Don't get me wrong - the encounter is going to be absolutely brutal because of the DPS/HPS check. There's so much output needed that even in full mythic (+695 avg), this fight will be a struggle.
I'm just sort of dissappointed that this is why the fight is hard, and not because of mechanic differences, like Lei Shen. You can always overtune a boss and call it hard, but designing an encounter that completly changes from heroic to mythic and needs completely different approaches like Lei Shen/Imperator due to one small change? That's a damn work of art.

Well remember Blizz nerfed raiding this tier even more than last, calling Flex, Normal mode and calling Normal, Heroic..so I think they want to keep the abilities similar to make it easier for the more casual raiding base that Wow now has and that the game is designed around.

[Pennoyer]

It's still very underwhelming mechanics wise. They could have done a lot more. Such an epic boss, such a boring upscaled heroic version.

I'm sure when I'm on it in a few weeks, it will tense as hell and lot more exciting than the video, but compared to mythic imperator it's a flop.

I've mostly been hearing about how Imperator was not particularly fun on mythic. On paper, it looks like all the mechanics and the twists from phase to phase would be really fun, but ultimately it appeared to be too long and unengaging until the latter part of the encounter (this was also true on heroic as well to me).

On the flipside, Blackhand only needs a few mechanics that are frequently used and carry a lot of 'impact' to be an engaging encounter. Like Gondlem was saying earlier, the pacing of the encounter appears to be good, and he's pretty much always doing *something* that a good portion of the raid, if not everyone, has to watch out for. I'd liken it to a boss like Ascendant Council--quick phases that are packed with action.

[Dracodraco]

I've mostly been hearing about how Imperator was not particularly fun on mythic. On paper, it looks like all the mechanics and the twists from phase to phase would be really fun, but ultimately it appeared to be too long and unengaging until the latter part of the encounter (this was also true on heroic as well to me).

On the flipside, Blackhand only needs a few mechanics that are frequently used and carry a lot of 'impact' to be an engaging encounter. Like Gondlem was saying earlier, the pacing of the encounter appears to be good, and he's pretty much always doing *something* that a good portion of the raid, if not everyone, has to watch out for. I'd liken it to a boss like Ascendant Council--quick phases that are packed with action.

Issue with imperator wasn't that the phases were boring - everything had to be accounted for and approached in a new way, and it was fun to learn.
The issue was that with little to no RNG, you learnt the first 2 phases (and intermissions) fairly quickly, just to get to the most intense part about 8 minutes in. It's not fun to have to do a 15 minute long encounter where the hardest part is situated at the end, because if just becomes a giant timewaster - think Sha of Fear back in TOES, where they even added a haste buff to P1 after you beat it once, to shorten the encounter a bit (why they don't do that more is beyond me).

A fight like Al'Akir, which was also +10 min, was frontloaded - the most difficult part was the first 80%, at which point it became a coordination/soft enrage check that you had to beat, that kept slowly ramping up, to end at a "decent" P3 (atleast it was new. Never liked the 3 dimensional aspect myself though). Essentially, either make the entire fight difficult on a more scaling level, so it goes 1-2-3-4 for the phases and difficulty, rather than 1-2-5-2 as it did for imperator, or just frontload brutal difficulty (like Al'akir and Blackhands numbers checks) in P1, and make the later phases decently hard. Nobody like spending 10 minutes to get to the part that needs progress.


A great example by the way, is Maidens - we recently killed it on mythic, and because we can send whichever boat we want up first, it means we could train each individual boat till our respective teams had it down. Instead of having to spend 7-8 minutes getting to the third boat, then wiping after 20 seconds because they messed up as they had never seen it before, we could choose it as the first and only spend a minute each pull teaching it. That's a good encounter design (even if half of the abilities are retardedly fucked up, and the fight itself can be cheesed to extreme degrees).

[Ergar]

Looked like a cool fight. I wish there had been an extra phase in the end, but still. Gz for them on the kill, that was amazing.