Blackrock Mountain Heroic - Hope it's better than Naxx.

[FobManX]

Yeah the whole having to concede until you got the perfect opening hand was silly. Imagine in WoW if you had to wipe everytime your entire raid didn't get trinket procs in the first 10s?

[Mormolyce]

Yeah the whole having to concede until you got the perfect opening hand was silly. Imagine in WoW if you had to wipe everytime your entire raid didn't get trinket procs in the first 10s?

Again, that's not an intended strategy.

It's a borderline exploit really. It's like save scumming.

[Sting]

Again, that's not an intended strategy.

It's a borderline exploit really. It's like save scumming.

The strategy on a lot of bosses is to get the god hand and god RNG. Gluth? Run oozes, deathrattles and thoughtsteal / mind vision and pray to a deity of your choice that you'd get them in the opening hand, and you thoughtsteal / vision his weapon AND get get your ooze out at the right time.

Don't get any of those cards early on? You're fucked. That's not save scumming.

[Jackielope]

PVE bosses in HS are like a puzzle: If you don't have the right pieces to solve it you'll either never finish the puzzle or it's putting a square peg in a round hole and you have to force it.

When you do get the exact puzzle pieces you need then it's a piece of cake. Or pie, if you prefer pie. Mmm, pie.

They did it this way for a reason though. If it was a true puzzle with the cards like some Yu-Gi-Oh video games have done where you're given the cards you need to win and then need to figure how exactly how to play them then they'd immediately become useless due to internet guides. At least we have the option of completing the task how we want if we care enough to do something different than what is optimal. Want to mill Patchwerk? Yup, you can do that.

[Deleted]

In Naxx the normals were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to easy, HC way to gimmicky/luck based.

[Zephire]

Well... Maybe you just built a faulty deck? I sure did, but I refused to give up and eventually I got that one great hand!

With so many different combinations I just think people bashing their head against a heroic boss wall are doing it wrong. Really looking forward for the "raid" (just need more gold...).

[Jackielope]

Most of the head bashing would be due to either not having the right cards in the first place (and thus need to grind) or getting crappy hands over and over until you got a draw that would ensure surviving long enough to make playing the game actually be worth one's time.

[Deztru]

with the AI being ridiculously stupid but giving them OP as f*ck cards just makes every single adventure bad.

[Mormolyce]

The strategy on a lot of bosses is to get the god hand and god RNG. Gluth? Run oozes, deathrattles and thoughtsteal / mind vision and pray to a deity of your choice that you'd get them in the opening hand, and you thoughtsteal / vision his weapon AND get get your ooze out at the right time.

Don't get any of those cards early on? You're fucked. That's not save scumming.

So build a deck that can beat those bosses without a perfect opener. Most people didn't though (myself included on some bosses), because that was hard.

A certain amount of luck is a natural part of Hearthstone, but if you make a deck that relies entirely on a particular draw order that is exactly like save scumming. It's possible in the mechanics of the game, and a lot of people will do it because it's the path of least resistance, but it's not the intended way to defeat those bosses. Just because you could beat those bosses with those kinds of gimmicks doesn't mean you were intended to.

And just because a guide on the internet told you to do it doesn't mean it's the way you were intended to solve the problem either.

[Raugnaut]

I actually had quite a bit of fun creating decks for a few bosses (Patchwerk, Maexxna, and Thaddius were pretty fun due to the fight mechanics). Granted, the RNG portion of Naxx sucks, but otherwise is pretty fun.

[Sting]

So build a deck that can beat those bosses without a perfect opener. Most people didn't though (myself included on some bosses), because that was hard.

A certain amount of luck is a natural part of Hearthstone, but if you make a deck that relies entirely on a particular draw order that is exactly like save scumming. It's possible in the mechanics of the game, and a lot of people will do it because it's the path of least resistance, but it's not the intended way to defeat those bosses. Just because you could beat those bosses with those kinds of gimmicks doesn't mean you were intended to.

And just because a guide on the internet told you to do it doesn't mean it's the way you were intended to solve the problem either.

Even the perfect counter deck has to rely on getting a good opening hand.

[Ryme]

It would be nice if the bosses got their cards truly randomised as well, that way the auto concede on bad opener might not always have to occur.

Also, a rematch option would be great so you don't have to load up the menu to reload the board every time.

[Sarevokcz]

Even the perfect counter deck has to rely on getting a good opening hand.

it almost sounds like he didnt even see heroic thaddius with its immediate 3 turn clock, where "passable" or "good" opening hands were just not good enough and you needed the answers pretty much immediately....

honestly, I think Maexxna was the best heroic, that really felt like a puzzle, the rest was pretty much "draw into these specific cards by turn 3/4 or get rekt" with the insane hero powers...

[Nikkaszal]

What I wanna see is more puzzles and challenges - ones where you are given set cards and need to work out what to do with what you have. Esp gimmicky ones like the Warrior challenge in Naxx that was all about enrages etc. Those are super fun.

Duels Of The Planeswalkers had some EXCELLENT challenges - it was completely set in stone what you had, with a specific goal/obstacle to overcome. You had to pick what cards to use and what order to play them in and you only had one (maybe two) "correct" options. Some of them were monstrously hard but they were ALL BEATABLE. Loved 'em.

[Sting]

What I wanna see is more puzzles and challenges - ones where you are given set cards and need to work out what to do with what you have. Esp gimmicky ones like the Warrior challenge in Naxx that was all about enrages etc. Those are super fun.

I quite hated the paladin and the warrior challenge. I could see what they tried to do, but the decks really didn't work out all that great. They suffered from the same problem as the naxx heroics, because you had to draw your combos to make it work.

[ComputerNerd]

When the game is so rng based, i dont know how you would make something challenging without it just being about having the right draw. Some of the fights where a little too frontloaded with the rng, as in you would just die on turn 4 if you didnt have the right cards, but as i remember it was far from all of them.

That is the nature of a card game, and unavoidable.
There is always going to be an element of random.
Good deck design and play will offset some of that, in some cases minimising it.

The class challenges I agree were too gimmicky.
Based entirely off combos, instead of playing to the strengths or against the weaknesses of the class.

[Mormolyce]

Even the perfect counter deck has to rely on getting a good opening hand.

There's a question of degree when talking about a good opening hand. If you need a very specific draw order that's a different thing to just sometimes getting a bad hand. Even highly viable ladder decks can fail due to poor draw. But here we're talking about decks where you keep conceding until you get a perfect opener.

it almost sounds like he didnt even see heroic thaddius with its immediate 3 turn clock, where "passable" or "good" opening hands were just not good enough and you needed the answers pretty much immediately....

honestly, I think Maexxna was the best heroic, that really felt like a puzzle, the rest was pretty much "draw into these specific cards by turn 3/4 or get rekt" with the insane hero powers...

Like I said, I wound up relying on decks that required a limited range of opening hands to win like most other people. Because coming up with a better hand was too hard and I wanted my sweet reward. That doesn't mean it's impossible to make a better deck.

What I wanna see is more puzzles and challenges - ones where you are given set cards and need to work out what to do with what you have. Esp gimmicky ones like the Warrior challenge in Naxx that was all about enrages etc. Those are super fun.

Yeah in a lot of ways I liked those set deck hero battles better.

[Deleted]

I hope BRM heroic will be a real challenge. Naxx was too easy

[ambientecho]

Was Naxxramas really that bad? I'm sorry but I refuse to pay for anything in a FTP. Funny how this is an FTP yet content is restricted from the free or casuals (Naxx I'm looking at you), and there is a tremendous difference in the power of a ftp/starter deck vs. a competitive ranked deck. Hmm, Psuedo-FTP it is: I see what you're doing there Blizz :l -Luigi Death Stare-.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

The difficulty of Naxx was wholly the introduction of real mechanics and gear checks to a game that was formerly about organization and preparation outside the raid environment.

Blackrock Furnace is the complete opposite.
There is very little you need to do to prepare your character, but Blast Furnace and Blackhand will test your raid - yes even on heroic.
Good luck.