Subt 2 + 3 target.

[Deleted]

So I got 2x Mythic Oregorgers dagger so next raid I wanna wreck the meters

I might even go Subt on Mythic Hans tonight, could someone tell me on two targets how does Subt get it's numbers? I'd assume, keeping rupture on the non targeted mob and continue ST rotation on one?

Can someone also clarify the AoE rotation for Subt? I assume it's FoK from 3+ targets, CT, and then Evis into ST? Or is it optimal to spread Rupture across multiple and not using Evis if theres lots of mobs.

[kilj]

lucky SoB!

[Rotesbart]

If these mobs will live long enough for full ruptures, that should be more dpe. IIRC CT grows as repeatedly applied, if so I'd expect at some point with enough adds spamming that would be ideal. Would have to check into that.

[darkmos]

2 or more targets = FoK

[Juano]

Fok as a combo builder
rupture on both
dont apply FW on both just one
i personally use 2 heavy weapons when im using FoK (not sure if thats optimal)
CT if 2 and evisc if 1 or shadow dancing

[Jarvid]

i personally use 2 heavy weapons when im using FoK (not sure if thats optimal)

Afaik FoK is only based on Attack Power, not Weapon Damge, so better don't do this.
If Multistrike Buff Procs(or FW while not in stealh) are active I would use Backstab, if no Multistrike Procs active FoK as Generator, I think at 2 targets Sinister Calling Procs might be worth more than the 2 CPs of FoK. Thats guessing though.

If FW up use Evis, else I'm not sure. Keep the CT Dot up to increase damage of FoK, when FW and MS Buffs are down.

[B L A D E]

On 2+ targets, you want to keep rupture and hemo on both targets with full uptime while you go normal sub rotation on the other one. So for example, Hans'gar fight. I would put rupture/hemo on both and then go normal rotation on the one that stays down, so in the start it's Franzok, next Hans then Franz then Hans etc. If you can, you want to get FW on both of them while having rupture and hemo up on them both aswell.

On 3+ targets, like Maidens. You wanna keep rupture, hemo and crimson tempest on all three while using FoK as CP builder and while running normal rotation on one of them with shadow dance/reflection etc. Remember to use your vanish on spamming FoK + CT and during Shadow Dance, you wanna try and get FW on all three while rupture, hemo and crimson tempest is up.

If you are fighting like Blast Furnace, you wanna keep up CT on as many targets as possible and use rupture/hemo on as many you can because those targets are very sustained, they don't die that quickly. But on Operator/Beastlord where they almost die instantly, you wanna just spam FoK + CT.

[Deleted]

On 2+ targets, you want to keep rupture and hemo on both targets with full uptime

You are kidding right ? Even on 1 target hemo is arguably not worth so on 2....

[KiwifruitOCE]

Simcrafts sub apl does this for 2+ targets. I doubt its been very optimised but its a good starting point.

1. Keep rupture up on all targets
2. Fan of knives to generate combo points
3. During dance, use ambush (I expect for 4 or more targets you should just use ambush for find weakness and then use FoK during dance, then use another ambush at the end of dance. Can't confirm though cuz I dunno how to input that to the apl).
4. Use Eviscerate for 2 targets with find weakness up, use CT as only finisher for 3+ even during find weakness.

Basically you end up spending 90% of your time counting your ruptures on multiple targets. If adds are going to die in less than 8 seconds, don't bother rupturing them, just spam CT.

So for a fight like maidens, apply rupture to all three bosses. Ambush during dance, use CT to finish if rupture doesn't need to be applied. Use FoK in place of backstab for the entire fight.

As a sidenote, simcraft is currently generating one more combo point than it should when using fan of knives. Therefore it may not be worth using fan of knives until 3 targets, have to wait for the next simcraft release to find out though.

[shaithis]

S
As a sidenote, simcraft is currently generating one more combo point than it should when using fan of knives. Therefore it may not be worth using fan of knives until 3 targets, have to wait for the next simcraft release to find out though.

I want to highlight this because it is important. It has always felt suboptimal to me to FoK on 2 targets, would recommend holding off at this point. Actually, if you have a 680+ slow wep, dagger / slow as combat should do very well here also.

[Deleted]

FoK for 3+ Targets.

For two targets: FoK after FW to apply DP to both targets, backstab main target for sinister calling procs and FoK after x2 finishes have been used to refresh 2nd targets DP and to reapply a fast rupture.

FoK doesn't proc sinisters calling where as backstab does, considering we're stacking MS it appears very sub optimal to FoK > Evis considering mastery is a generally going to be lower.

[Jarvid]

FoK doesn't proc sinisters calling where as backstab does

Slightly OT(sorry): Which is kinda annoying! It wouldn't skyrocket sub soe dmg but definitly improve it.

OnTopic: Just compiled current Simc source(will be 610-07), as there FoK is already fixed.
Indeed (on my gear,did not test BiS) changing

actions.generator+=/fan_of_knives,if=active_enemies>1

to

actions.generator+=/fan_of_knives,if=active_enemies>2

improved my 2 target dps:
2 Enemies, FoK used at >1 enemies:
610-03 : 33087.4 dps
610-07 : 31923.5 dps

2 Enemies, FoK used at >2 enemies (so not used at all in this fight):
610-03 : 32296.2 dps
610-07 : 32291.0 dps
Should be the same, as the only change to rogues in simc was the change to FoK and so it is.

Changing it to active_enemies>3 was a big loss on 3 targets,no suprise, just wanted to make sure

Looking at how sub is already at the lower end in the the experimental AddWaves charts, I see us almost at the bottom now