Remove splitraids?

[Bryntrollian]

Why exactly is it a problem in the first place ?

[Jeniwyn]

Why exactly is it a problem in the first place ?

Well, if one solves this issue and solves it well, that solution could be applied to Mythic and we wouldn't need to have the draconian lockout system that we have in place for it.

[Shamburger]

Actually... whatever they do ends up mirrored in all levels of competitive mythic raiding. Is not just something that the top 5 guilds do, they create the trend and many guilds follow, even those that will barely manage to rank in the top 100 or only aspire to something like realm first or region first. The very first moment that one guild does something that gives a big advantage, all other guilds feel forced to follow... and when we are talking about investing your time in 4-6 alt characters fun stops being a factor and stars looking like a job, are all of those players actually doing it because they want to or because they feel forced to do it just to be able to compete?

As a mythic raider, i would like to see some solutions that avoid this kind of behaviour. We will always try to get as much advantage as possible, but split raids are just going too far and it needs to stop, it's something that has been happening a lot in 10man raids in the past and now flex raiding for heroic mode makes it a clear winner.

If enforcing personal loot for the first reset is the way to do it... then i'm fine with it, although it's not ideal it could stop the trend. A way to make it less penalizing would be to add an increased chance to get loot during that reset.

Competitive guild do competitive things to stay competitive...

There is no difference between doing it because they want to and feeling forced (but doing it anyways). They are the same choice, doing it. Just because something isn't fun for you (gearing alts) doesn't mean it isn't fun for someone else. There is nothing wrong with loot funneling at all. Nothing broken so nothing needs a "fix".

[Jdance]

yes please

[Deleted]

Who cares?

[Deleted]

Enforcing personal loot for the first 2-3 IDs would be the only solution.

[Shamburger]

Enforcing personal loot for the first 2-3 IDs would be the only solution.

I don't see the point. World first guild are still going to be world first. It'd be the exact same race as it is now, jsut without each guild running the raid a couple extra times.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Makes no sense.
"Splitraids" isn't a feature.
It can't be removed.
Its just an option, and has no legitimate way to be "removed" that wouldn't fuck 99 percent of the other people who also raid.

[Pokty]

Makes no sense.
"Splitraids" isn't a feature.
It can't be removed.
Its just an option, and has no legitimate way to be "removed" that wouldn't fuck 99 percent of the other people who also raid.

Really, it can't be removed without "fucking" 99% of people who raid? That's quite a bold statement. Do you have any argument to back that up besides "I said so!"? I really don't care either way (I dont even play the game currently), but the level of discussion in this thread is borderline pathetic. There are multiple ways you could disincentivize first week split raids without really affecting other raiders. For example, by making mythic and heroic sharing loot lockout. E.g. heroic and mythic are still separate lockouts, but if you kill a boss on either difficulty, you can't receive loot from the same boss on the other difficulty. Combine this with releasing mythic on the first week as well. Everyone that cares about mythic will then do mythic only. For people that are heroic mode only raiders, there would be no change.

And yes, you could always make the argument that split raids don't need to be fixed because it's a fringe activity that's done by a very small portion of the player base. The "if you dont want to do it you dont have to" argument. However, if you want the "business case", sometimes Blizzard needs to step in and save the most hardcore players from themselves so that they don't burn themselves out and cancel their subscriptions. I seriously doubt that any hardcore guild actually enjoys split raids, but they "need" to do them to keep up with the other guilds. We have a situation where the hardcore guilds are stuck in a suboptimal equilibrium. Blizzard could move all guilds to a better equilibrium where they dont have to spend an entire week clearing the instance 5 times on heroic.

[jellyfrog]

No. Splitraids allows people who wants to dedicate their time to get an advantage. I don't see how this is a bad thing. It also forces people to play multiple characters, making people better at playing more than just their main.

From watching stuff like FinalBoss interviews etc it seems these people don't actually want to do splitraids though, they are forced to because they want to maintain top tier progression but it seems most of them don't enjoy it.

[Deleted]

Sorry but what is split raiding?

[jellyfrog]

Sorry but what is split raiding?

It's what the top guilds do for the first week or two or three of progression where each member has 5-6 alts and they run the heroic difficulty of the raid 5-6 times. Each raid only takes a few mains in order to funnel all the gear from each run into those few characters, giving said characters a much higher itemlevel than they would have by splitting the loot between 30 people.

[Filfa]

The top guilds are burning themselves out--should we care? absolutely not they have no positive effects on average game play--quite possibly the opposite.

You should care, without these top guilds content will get worse. They have very positive effects on PvE game play.

@OP there is no real way to prevent split raids from happening, getting beat in prog by a guild who ran splits? Better learn them alts.

Split raids are there for the guilds who want to put in extra effort and gain a competitive advantage, any average guild would have cleared HM or BRF heroic in the first week in 2 nights tops; what do you then do with the rest of your raiding week?

@Pokty Your " solution " would only result in lower scaling for mythic content, making the content easier as it will need to cater to a lower ilvl as there is no stepping stone as there is now with heroic.

This tier has been a tier where everyone has magically discovered what has been going on for years, Account sharing, split runs, questionable strats ect... I'm actually amazed at the amount of people who think these are new things.

[burek]

Really, it can't be removed without "fucking" 99% of people who raid? That's quite a bold statement. Do you have any argument to back that up besides "I said so!"? I really don't care either way (I dont even play the game currently), but the level of discussion in this thread is borderline pathetic. There are multiple ways you could disincentivize first week split raids without really affecting other raiders. For example, by making mythic and heroic sharing loot lockout. E.g. heroic and mythic are still separate lockouts, but if you kill a boss on either difficulty, you can't receive loot from the same boss on the other difficulty. Combine this with releasing mythic on the first week as well. Everyone that cares about mythic will then do mythic only. For people that are heroic mode only raiders, there would be no change.

that would just screw over a large number of guilds who do both difficulties, just for the sake of a couple of guilds that will anyway find some other stupid thing to burn themselves out on.

[Brozooka]

Enforcing personal loot for the first 2-3 IDs would be the only solution.

then guilds could just make 5 of the same character and raid with the one that got the most gear.

[Deleted]

It's what the top guilds do for the first week or two or three of progression where each member has 5-6 alts and they run the heroic difficulty of the raid 5-6 times. Each raid only takes a few mains in order to funnel all the gear from each run into those few characters, giving said characters a much higher itemlevel than they would have by splitting the loot between 30 people.

in that case, There is no problem.

They took the time to level the characters, They are using the loot rules that have been in the game since the very beginning.
People really will bitch and moan about anything wont they.

[jellyfrog]

in that case, There is no problem.

They took the time to level the characters, They are using the loot rules that have been in the game since the very beginning.
People really will bitch and moan about anything wont they.

I think you're missing the point a bit. It's the people who are doing the split runs who are not happy having to grind out hours of raiding before the real progression even begins, as well as having to squeeze in another 5-6 raids while trying to progress on mythic bosses. I'm pretty sure the first time I heard the personal loot suggestion was from someone in Ascension in the FinalBoss interview.

Most of the suggestions as to how to solve the "problem" aren't really viable as they would have a huge impact on the rest of the raiding community which makes up 99% of the player base. However there are other potential solutions, something along the lines of an ilvl cap in Mythic similar to what we see in challenge modes might work, obviously it would be removed over time in some way. Haven't really put much thought into it but seems more viable than personal loot or joint lockouts.

[Kazuchika]

You should care, without these top guilds content will get worse. They have very positive effects on PvE game play.

I would love to hear the rationale behind the idea that top guilds somehow govern how much effort Blizzard puts into it's raid design.

[corebit]

You should care, without these top guilds content will get worse. They have very positive effects on PvE game play.

Positive effects? Like the game having nothing to do outside of raiding and everyone is AFKing in their garrisons waiting for an invite?

[jellyfrog]

Positive effects? Like the game having nothing to do outside of raiding and everyone is AFKing in their garrisons waiting for an invite?

Ugh taking this off topic here but honestly what exactly would you like to see them add to the game for you to do outside of raiding? You could do dungeons, bgs, arenas, world pvp, quests, dailies, weeklies, garrison stuff, farming, LFR, other raid difficulties, outdoor bosses, old raids... The list goes on and on and on and on. Just because you don't find these things fun or rewarding enough doesn't mean there's nothing to do.