Holinka - Happy but not satisfied with pvp

[Freshie Fresh]

are you happy with the current state of pvp? I hope ill get an honest answer.

Happy but not satisfied. We can always do better. (holinka)

We're doomed...I'd almost wish Ghostcrawler back at this point. I cannot believe how oblivious this guy is to the fact that the pvp crowd is dying. How you can be happy about that is beyond me. Several I know have unsubbed and most of the larger twitch pvp players have moved on. Fix the pvp, or your community is done.

Adding in a post I made below as it covers most of my points. Unfortunately I'm at work or I'd have gone into further detail:


First, PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS A PVP vs. PVE THREAD.
Mods, please close this thread if it continues down that path.

Second, let's discuss a few points that lead to me making a "PvP community is dying" thread.

WoW PvP has always played second fiddle to PvE. That's perfectly fine and understandable. Currently, worldwide there are 804,196 players above 1800mmr. That puts the pvp player base at an estimated 1.5 million-2.5 million (source/estimates come from: http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/) This means that about 20% of WoW's population is dedicated to PvP. While that's not a large portion that's still nearly 2 million or more players that may end up dropping the game flat out. If all of those people stopped their sub (realistically this won't happen, but theoretically speaking) that's a $30,000,000 loss. No company, nor its shareholders will be ok with that. The PvP community is still a huge part of WoW whether you like it or not.

As for the state of pvp, it's just simply broken. While the mechanics and various aspects may be in a good state the balance of classes is atrocious. We have players like Cdew, Sodapoppin, Hotted, Watchmeblink, and many others that state the game is completely broken and not fun at this point. I watched Cdew do games on his warrior last night and each game was so painfully slow. There were 2 second windows, which unless they burst down their target it was over. They were playing a terrible comp, but at the same time it showed just how bad pvp had become. While I do enjoy longer fights I am almost missing the days of burst comps just for the fact that I wasn't spending 15-20 minutes per game hoping to god someone fucks up. Self healing on certain classes is way too damn high, healing in general needs to be toned down on some classes while slightly buffing others, and the burst ability on some classes compared to other DPS is completely unbalanced. Right now the game is just not fun, and it looks like Blizzard's town retard Holinka just doesn't understand that, and worse he seems happy about it.

I really feel overall WoD was a fuck up. The garrison has far too much focus and it shows in every other aspect of the game. Garrisons should have been about sending you out into the world to do missions, while your followers did the work at the garrison. Instead I'm suck being the gardener and lands keeper while all my followers go do epic missions for me. Ashran I feel has come along nicely, but I really don't care to spend hours upon hours in there. I was always a player that enjoyed arenas more than BGs. Let's not even mention the fact that there were no new arenas or BGs in this xpac, and there are no plans to add any in AFAIK. The fact is, even PvE players are complaining that this xpac lacks content. The biggest worry out of all of this is that it seems Blizzard has nothing further planned past 6.2, so the question I'm left asking is what exactly is the point in continuing to play?

[XDurionX]

The pvp crowd will never be happy anyway, since not all eleven classes can be op at the same time.

Pvp dying, good riddance.

[Armbre]

I think what has hurt the community alot is blizz's direction of trying to get rid of 2's. Now i know that the twos bracket is always unbalanced but i know a ton of players who just enjoy teaming up with a buddy and doing some arenas for fun which would get them a bit more interested thus growing the community. Then there is obviously balance which is meh i mean i know there will always be fotm and i'm fine with that because thats what happens when you work with numbers but some classes lost all of their flavor in the prune and aren't very fun to pvp on anymore.

[Super Kami Dende]

I think what has hurt the community is everyone taking every single tweet out of context and screaming about the sky falling.

You can be happy with something and still be unsatisfied. I'm happy when I eat McDonalds, doesn't always satisfy me though. You can still PvP in WoW and mess around and have fun, doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with it.

Most people that complain about PvP are 1200mmr heroes anyway.

[Aeula]

I don't really notice any issues with balance to be fair, but that might be because I only do ashran and stay with the group... Faction balance is a more pressing concern than class for me.

[Ishayu]

He has good reason to be happy but not entirely satisfied with the PvP mechanics.

The real problem with PvP is class balance and class design, which is just ridiculously atrocious. There's only so much Holinka can do with his bandaid fixes.

[Sickjen]

I think what has hurt the community is everyone taking every single tweet out of context and screaming about the sky falling.

You can be happy with something and still be unsatisfied. I'm happy when I eat McDonalds, doesn't always satisfy me though. You can still PvP in WoW and mess around and have fun, doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with it.

Most people that complain about PvP are 1200mmr heroes anyway.

Sodapoppin quit he's not 1200 mmr, He expressed many concerns about wow pvp like many others have. Holinka basically is saying here ...we are satisfied with pvps state...how is that taken out of context? He thinks it's in a good place when clearly it's not. The whole point of wod was to make class balance and it's worse then ever.

To the people who think this game is only PVE you are very wrong a vast amount of people play only to pvp. They are neglecting a high portion of there subscribers at the moment.

[Mad_Murdock]

Fix the pvp, or your community is done.

**Edit** Good point Wass. Wasn't meaning to make it a PVP vs PVE conversation. Since this is a PVP sub forum, I'll retract my comment.

To the people who think this game is only PVE you are very wrong a vast amount of people play only to pvp

You have some numbers? Pretty sure PvP is below raiding and raiding is only a small portion of the overall crowd. Everyone keeps saying they represent the majority of the players

[Wass]

Posting from phone, can't quote in any smooth way.

1. The ranked pvp playerbase is rather small compared to all the subs. If you consider the fact that about 320k chars were flagged for 3v3 ranking last season of mop (many of those being alts) and the sub numbers being at like 7-8 million back then, you can conclude that only a handfull of the playerbase actively plays ranked pvp.

2. Please don't turn this into a PvP/PvE bashing thread, just saying.

[Deleted]

We're doomed...I'd almost wish Ghostcrawler back at this point. I cannot believe how oblivious this guy is to the fact that the pvp crowd is dying. How you can be happy about that is beyond me. Several I know have unsubbed and most of the larger twitch pvp players have moved on. Fix the pvp, or your community is done.

Hes not happy cuz hunters are still killable. He will fix it tho... IMO self healing should be toned down SIGNIFICANTLY.

[Bluesftw]

happy but not satisfied, some calsses are still playable and/or fun to play , we're working on a fix.

[ellieg]

I just don't like how every 3s game is a formula. We are this comp facing that comp, so we will do this exact strat and we will win 80% of the time. I know its always been like this but it feels more so than usual. I like that games have gotten slower but it feels too slow now. I feel like everyone used to have a strat but getting a few lucky crits and bursting someone down could completely change the dynamic of a fight. I especially hate god comp. CC everything and align cooldowns. if that doesn't work, cc everyone more and align cooldowns in a minute and see if it works then.

[PetersenIV]

We're doomed...I'd almost wish Ghostcrawler back at this point. I cannot believe how oblivious this guy is to the fact that the pvp crowd is dying. How you can be happy about that is beyond me. Several I know have unsubbed and most of the larger twitch pvp players have moved on. Fix the pvp, or your community is done.

He's happy the PvP crowd is dying. Not satisfied that it's not dead yet. Guy gets an A+ from me. Shuck PvP.

[Guinnezz]

The pvp crowd will never be happy anyway, since not all eleven classes can be op at the same time.

Pvp dying, good riddance.

I'm guessing you are a PVE only guy. That makes it easy to say good riddance.

But i can tell you this game is a business and the higher ups at Blizz are not saying good riddance to the PVP subs that are dropping at a staggering rate.

How Holinka still has a job is beyond me. You can tell me all day that its a team decision. I understand that, but hes the lead dev and deserves all the backlash for piss poor production

- - - Updated - - -

MMO champ actually posted the numbers. and Raider v PVPers were pretty even i think it was like a 60 / 40 in favor of PVE. You think Blizz as a business would be happy to let that chunk of the PVP community walk

[arcaneshot]

Sodapoppin quit he's not 1200 mmr,.

Exhibit A of taking things out of context.

[Guinnezz]

There are pvpers who only RBG. 2s. and 5s

You need to combine the numbers from all

I ass a pvper only do RBGs its what i enjoy. So taking numbers from 3s only wont be accurate.

[Raelbo]

Sodapoppin quit he's not 1200 mmr, He expressed many concerns about wow pvp like many others have.

Sodapoppin may have been good at playing the game, and he may have been successful at attracting a following. But that doesn't mean his opinion has any merit whatsoever.

[Freshie Fresh]

I am at work, so I can't go into this a deeply as I would like, but I want to make a few points.

First, PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS A PVP vs. PVE THREAD.
Mods, please close this thread if it continues down that path.

Second, let's discuss a few points that lead to me making a "PvP community is dying" thread.

WoW PvP has always played second fiddle to PvE. That's perfectly fine and understandable. Currently, worldwide there are 804,196 players above 1800mmr. That puts the pvp player base at an estimated 1.5 million-2.5 million (source/estimates come from: http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/) This means that about 20% of WoW's population is dedicated to PvP. While that's not a large portion that's still nearly 2 million or more players that may end up dropping the game flat out. If all of those people stopped their sub (realistically this won't happen, but theoretically speaking) that's a $30,000,000 loss. No company, nor its shareholders will be ok with that. The PvP community is still a huge part of WoW whether you like it or not.

As for the state of pvp, it's just simply broken. While the mechanics and various aspects may be in a good state the balance of classes is atrocious. We have players like Cdew, Sodapoppin, Hotted, Watchmeblink, and many others that state the game is completely broken and not fun at this point. I watched Cdew do games on his warrior last night and each game was so painfully slow. There were 2 second windows, which unless they burst down their target it was over. They were playing a terrible comp, but at the same time it showed just how bad pvp had become. While I do enjoy longer fights I am almost missing the days of burst comps just for the fact that I wasn't spending 15-20 minutes per game hoping to god someone fucks up. Self healing on certain classes is way too damn high, healing in general needs to be toned down on some classes while slightly buffing others, and the burst ability on some classes compared to other DPS is completely unbalanced. Right now the game is just not fun, and it looks like Blizzard's town retard Holinka just doesn't understand that, and worse he seems happy about it.

I really feel overall WoD was a fuck up. The garrison has far too much focus and it shows in every other aspect of the game. Garrisons should have been about sending you out into the world to do missions, while your followers did the work at the garrison. Instead I'm suck being the gardener and lands keeper while all my followers go do epic missions for me. Ashran I feel has come along nicely, but I really don't care to spend hours upon hours in there. I was always a player that enjoyed arenas more than BGs. Let's not even mention the fact that there were no new arenas or BGs in this xpac, and there are no plans to add any in AFAIK. The fact is, even PvE players are complaining that this xpac lacks content. The biggest worry out of all of this is that it seems Blizzard has nothing further planned past 6.2, so the question I'm left asking is what exactly is the point in continuing to play?

[The Yeti]

Holinka basically is saying here ...we are satisfied with pvps state...

Happy but not satisfied. We can always do better.

You've clearly figured this out.

But seriously, the biggest problem with WoW's community on this forum is that everything is taken horribly out of context, and if you like WoW in the state it is in, you are dismissed as a fanboy, ignorant, or a moron.

PvP, IMO, is not in great shape right now. But a lot of the problem has to do with the lackluster effort in Ashran. Ashran and BGs are how most casual PvPers participate, and they're not in good shape. Faction imbalance is also really hurting this as well, with Alliance typically dominating due to superior racials for PvP.

[Octa]

Holinka basically is saying here ...we are satisfied with pvps state.

That's the complete opposite of what he actually said though.