Critique my Sub -- What can I do better?

[Layke]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=2

That is from last week on Heroic Gruul at 682 ilvl. I pulled 43.2k. Basically, what can I do to improve? I still haven't been able to figure out if I should be keeping Hemo up or not and currently I just have SD, SR, and my Beating Heart all macroed in to one another. I've read that some people like to pop SR, use Rupture, and THEN pop SD and I'm curious if this is something I should be doing. It feels a tad clunky, but so be it.

I appreciate the feedback!

[Deleted]

43k dps is verry good.

[KiwifruitOCE]

I would modify your opener a tad if I were you. You generally want to use shadow dance/reflection asap in the fight so that you get the most benefit from your proc trinkets like scales of doom. You were lucky in that log in that scales of doom procced three times back to back in the first 30 seconds of the fight (which is insane).

Try doing this:

Garrote
Ambush
Rupture when 5th cp procs from HaT
SR/SD

The first find weakness you get from your opener is not important to maximise.

If you have the heroic blackhand trinket, you'll probably find a dps increase using that rather than scales of doom, reason being that you're going over 100% multistrike when all your procs line up.

Other than that, you did pretty well. Just work on getting your rupture uptime closer to 100%. I'd probably ignore hemo if I were you, such a marginal dps increase is not worth the effort required to maintain uptime whilst juggling the rest of your rotation.

[Layke]

I would modify your opener a tad if I were you. You generally want to use shadow dance/reflection asap in the fight so that you get the most benefit from your proc trinkets like scales of doom. You were lucky in that log in that scales of doom procced three times back to back in the first 30 seconds of the fight (which is insane).

Try doing this:

Garrote
Ambush
Rupture when 5th cp procs from HaT
SR/SD

The first find weakness you get from your opener is not important to maximise.

If you have the heroic blackhand trinket, you'll probably find a dps increase using that rather than scales of doom, reason being that you're going over 100% multistrike when all your procs line up.

Other than that, you did pretty well. Just work on getting your rupture uptime closer to 100%. I'd probably ignore hemo if I were you, such a marginal dps increase is not worth the effort required to maintain uptime whilst juggling the rest of your rotation.

Is starting with Garrote actually a DPS increase over Ambush? I've seen some Rogues do it and others that don't. Never been sure if it's the ideal opener or not. Either way, I'm sure it's a marginal DPS difference, but I am curious.

Also, in the past, I've waited to use SD+SR until my initial FW is about to fall off. You're saying that it's better to forgo 4-5 seconds of FW in favor of getting my burst damage in quicker?

[Eekmut]

I would modify your opener a tad if I were you. You generally want to use shadow dance/reflection asap in the fight so that you get the most benefit from your proc trinkets like scales of doom. You were lucky in that log in that scales of doom procced three times back to back in the first 30 seconds of the fight (which is insane).

Try doing this:

Garrote
Ambush
Rupture when 5th cp procs from HaT
SR/SD

The first find weakness you get from your opener is not important to maximise.

If you have the heroic blackhand trinket, you'll probably find a dps increase using that rather than scales of doom, reason being that you're going over 100% multistrike when all your procs line up.

Other than that, you did pretty well. Just work on getting your rupture uptime closer to 100%. I'd probably ignore hemo if I were you, such a marginal dps increase is not worth the effort required to maintain uptime whilst juggling the rest of your rotation.

If you Rupture before the SR, it won't be copied. You should blow SR before you do your Rupture.

[Layke]

I would modify your opener a tad if I were you. You generally want to use shadow dance/reflection asap in the fight so that you get the most benefit from your proc trinkets like scales of doom. You were lucky in that log in that scales of doom procced three times back to back in the first 30 seconds of the fight (which is insane).

Try doing this:

Garrote
Ambush
Rupture when 5th cp procs from HaT
SR/SD

The first find weakness you get from your opener is not important to maximise.

If you have the heroic blackhand trinket, you'll probably find a dps increase using that rather than scales of doom, reason being that you're going over 100% multistrike when all your procs line up.

Other than that, you did pretty well. Just work on getting your rupture uptime closer to 100%. I'd probably ignore hemo if I were you, such a marginal dps increase is not worth the effort required to maintain uptime whilst juggling the rest of your rotation.

Also, I just simmed myself. SimCraft is telling me Humming is a DPS loss. Thoughts? It even tells me this when I switch my weapon enchants to Bleeding Hollow.

[KiwifruitOCE]

Is starting with Garrote actually a DPS increase over Ambush? I've seen some Rogues do it and others that don't. Never been sure if it's the ideal opener or not. Either way, I'm sure it's a marginal DPS difference, but I am curious.

Also, in the past, I've waited to use SD+SR until my initial FW is about to fall off. You're saying that it's better to forgo 4-5 seconds of FW in favor of getting my burst damage in quicker?

From what I've read around this forum, garrote>ambush is a very slight increase over ambush>ambush, just due to SV buff on your second ambush and melees. You can also do hemo>ambush if you have the hemo glyph.

And yes, its better to forgo the 4-5 seconds of FW. Your scales of doom (or heroic blackhand trinket) usually proc in the first 2-3 seconds of a fight. To maximise your damage, you want to use dance asap so that its benefitting from your trinket. Using cooldowns as soon as they are up is also one of the most important parts of sub dps, so theres no point delaying more than 3-4 seconds before CDs in most circumstances.

If you Rupture before the SR, it won't be copied. You should blow SR before you do your Rupture.

With the level of multistrike Layke is at, he is going to reapply Rupture before SR's copy period has ended.

My rotation for dance is ambush>ambush>evis>ambush>ambush>rupture. Using that will let your SR copy your second rupture. If you use SR + Rupture before dance, all you've really done is give your shadow reflection another 6 seconds of rupture damage. Its not a huge deal, which is why macroing the abilities is not a big trade off.

Also, I just simmed myself. SimCraft is telling me Humming is a DPS loss. Thoughts? It even tells me this when I switch my weapon enchants to Bleeding Hollow.

Are you running version 610-07? It has the +5ilvl stats updated for brf gear. My sim finds a 200 dps increase in swapping to heroic humming (less than I expected, but dps is dps).

[Deleted]

Also, I just simmed myself. SimCraft is telling me Humming is a DPS loss. Thoughts? It even tells me this when I switch my weapon enchants to Bleeding Hollow.

idk if you are using some custom rotation, but with basic simulationcraft settings heroic humming is 220 dps increase for you. And with gear upgrades you will get from mythic you will get more and more multistrike.

And for the logs you added, you used your first dance late, after legendary ring proc, and half of your 1st on-use trinket proc was without potion. FW uptime will suffer in doing everything faster but you will have it up for all your procs.

[Layke]

From what I've read around this forum, garrote>ambush is a very slight increase over ambush>ambush, just due to SV buff on your second ambush and melees. You can also do hemo>ambush if you have the hemo glyph.

And yes, its better to forgo the 4-5 seconds of FW. Your scales of doom (or heroic blackhand trinket) usually proc in the first 2-3 seconds of a fight. To maximise your damage, you want to use dance asap so that its benefitting from your trinket. Using cooldowns as soon as they are up is also one of the most important parts of sub dps, so theres no point delaying more than 3-4 seconds before CDs in most circumstances.


With the level of multistrike Layke is at, he is going to reapply Rupture before SR's copy period has ended.

My rotation for dance is ambush>ambush>evis>ambush>ambush>rupture. Using that will let your SR copy your second rupture. If you use SR + Rupture before dance, all you've really done is give your shadow reflection another 6 seconds of rupture damage. Its not a huge deal, which is why macroing the abilities is not a big trade off.





Are you running version 610-07? It has the +5ilvl stats updated for brf gear. My sim finds a 200 dps increase in swapping to heroic humming (less than I expected, but dps is dps).

My SimCraft is currently 610-07. Everytime I sim myself, Humming is about a 100 DPS loss. I'm running 25,00 iterations, Patchwerk style. Not sure how you guys are getting those results. =/

[KiwifruitOCE]

My SimCraft is currently 610-07. Everytime I sim myself, Humming is about a 100 DPS loss. I'm running 25,00 iterations, Patchwerk style. Not sure how you guys are getting those results. =/

Can you copy paste your simulation profile here? use {code}{/code} tags (with square brackets) to post them

 Like this

[sk8jack]

Just wondering, for sub with 4 pc set bonus, subterfuge with vanish glyph, what would be the most optimal opener?
Currently I'm opening with garrote followed by ambush, and another ambush/backstab, and then regain my energy to about 50-60% before I pop SR>rupture>SD.
Due to the 2 pc set bonus I will get 60 energy after popping SD, hence why I SR>rupture>SD at 50-60% energy.
Or is it better to just pop SR>rupture>SD asap after 5 cp from garrote>ambush and HAT proc?

[KiwifruitOCE]

Just wondering, for sub with 4 pc set bonus, subterfuge with vanish glyph, what would be the most optimal opener?
Currently I'm opening with garrote followed by ambush, and another ambush/backstab, and then regain my energy to about 50-60% before I pop SR>rupture>SD.
Due to the 2 pc set bonus I will get 60 energy after popping SD, hence why I SR>rupture>SD at 50-60% energy.
Or is it better to just pop SR>rupture>SD asap after 5 cp from garrote>ambush and HAT proc?

If you look in the simcraft thread, nihna recently posted a table of dps from different openers.

In the end, theres very, very little difference between doing garrote>ambush>rupture after hat proc and doing garrote>ambush>ambush>rupture. The first opener does come out very slightly ahead and its generally easier to preform (imo), so I would go with that one.

Whether you decide to use reflection > rupture > dance or rupture > reflection/dance is up to you. You need a decent amount of multistrike to make sure that you are going to be reapplying rupture inside the first 8 seconds of reflection if you decide to go for the second rupture style.