Season 2 comming to an end soon

[Razael]

This is actually not true because the majority of people who play only do so on seasonal characters. I don't see streamers playing normal mode and I don't see any of my friends or clan members doing so either. In fact I don't even know if there are open public games in normal mode.

There's no benefit to playing normal mode with the exception of when the season is inactive. This is fully what Blizzard's intention is. They didn't design a feature with rewards, perks, new items, etc for people to not play it. They implemented entire new systems, new achievements, and prestige for competing in seasonal play.

It's a fallacy to say a focus of the game is on normal mode. All of the changes are implemented for an upcoming season, including class abilities and new loot that is only available in that seasonal mode.

Like the discussion i was having with Fencers, this is what i was trying to get at, but ultimately as a non-native english speaker i can't get across.
If you are playing Diablo 3 during a Season , and you aren't playing in Season mode, you are effectively gimping yourself out from exclusive transmog, banner, achievements and first dibs on new build/character changing items.
To not play Season mode during a season seems and feels like the wrong thing to do.

[Fencers]

I mean I've started playing PoE again recently, though not very much, and it is interesting to see all they are doing...but ultimately isn't it the same? Limited time, cosmetic rewards, once it's over that's that? All the events seem to involve releveling a character and completing set things, then doing it over the next time.

No, some things only ever will exist in that league. After it is gone, it is gone unless the league is re-introduced in some way. Which does happen but under unique of special circumstances.

For example, during Invasion league you could only gain X/Y/Z items (which were not strictly linear) and encounter A/B/C adversaries. It ended, some Invasion aspects remained. However, when Invasion came back around it was no longer the same- it was Invasion + Ambush + Onslaught mixed together; making the game significantly harder, reordering progression and economy and it was limited duration, with a ladder race attached.

Leagues in POE change the gameplay, economy and methodology in addition to all the competitive and incentive based aspects D3's seasons offer. Where the latter simply doesn't change gameplay or economy.

Now this is not to say I believe D3's seasons need to function like POE's or that D3's seasons should change gameplay. It is more than fine that seasons are essentially ladder resets with the D3 equiv of 'ladder only runewords".

The competition aspect as many brought up is not at all my issue. These arguments are being made in ignorance of the design of the game.

There is no possible way to play Diablo 3 without progressing in a strictly limited linear fashion. Not a single game system exists in D3 which support such. It is literally not possible as a point of fact.

The hyper linearity of D3 creates a design problem of the most dire kind- one of the only two issues a game can have as an objective measure of valid design; incongruity &/or conflict in gameplay goal.

By playing a season one is engaging in the only mode of play that does not further the progression of power effectively. That power progression rolls into the main account at seasons end, but if we think about the modus of play abstractly one could say X amount of hours yields Y progression as an eventuality. It is guaranteed to the player, again, the game does not permit one to play in any way that is not a furthering of power, that an increase in time spent will return progression of one form or another.

By playing a season, re-leveling to the same point of Grift/T6 completion one implicitly is playing the game at a worse state. As the time invested could directly, immediately and eventually further the goal of the gameplay in all non-PVP aspects.

In Diablo 2 the ladder resets did not undermine the core gameplay as the top end of D2 was not strictly linear or an eventuality. Maximum level was not designed as the default state of endgame play, items did not follow a strict upgrade path (a level 30 weapon could funnel a level 80 Sorc, ex), et cetera.

Ladder resets in D2 were non-disruptive to the design of the game. Due to the specific play set up of D3- legendary drop rate @ X time value, guaranteed loot drops, scaling difficulty, no loss item chancing, deterministic crafting and account wide progression; the ladder or rather seasonal resets are a worse state of play to the design of the game.

I understand people like seasons. I do too. That is not relevant to gameplay, however.

[Kelimbror]

No, some things only ever will exist in that league. After it is gone, it is gone unless the league is re-introduced in some way. Which does happen but under unique of special circumstances.

For example, during Invasion league you could only gain X/Y/Z items (which were not strictly linear) and encounter A/B/C adversaries. It ended, some Invasion aspects remained. However, when Invasion came back around it was no longer the same- it was Invasion + Ambush + Onslaught mixed together; making the game significantly harder, reordering progression and economy and it was limited duration, with a ladder race attached.

Hrm. That's intriguing in its own merit then. I think that was the initial idea for seasons in D3 but people do as they tend to and had a flipping cow which made sure Blizz had everything carry over. The D3 player base was vehemently against season only legendaries without them becoming available in any other fashion.

On one hand, I feel the same way because I don't have the time or capacity to play the game in a way that seasons would be rewarding for me in that design. On the other, it would arguably make the seasonal distinction a little bit more appropriate and it would serve the direct gameplay as long as that item was in your linear progression in some capacity. Essentially hitting a plateau that wasn't possible prior to the items existence which was only possible via the new game mode.

In the end D3 is supposed to be an exceptionally accessible experience while PoE doesn't need that to accomplish its design. In any case, I haven't played PoE enough to speak of it in anything other than conceptual terms so I can't really weigh in on what feels better. Obviously they hit different audiences with different design tenets and that's fine. Diversity is welcome.

Similarly Marvel Heroes has the same basic linear progression of an ARPG, but it takes a different form in requiring leveling different heroes in order to progress your account to maximum effect.

[Fencers]

Hrm. That's intriguing in its own merit then. I think that was the initial idea for seasons in D3 but people do as they tend to and had a flipping cow which made sure Blizz had everything carry over. The D3 player base was vehemently against season only legendaries without them becoming available in any other fashion.

On one hand, I feel the same way because I don't have the time or capacity to play the game in a way that seasons would be rewarding for me in that design. On the other, it would arguably make the seasonal distinction a little bit more appropriate and it would serve the direct gameplay as long as that item was in your linear progression in some capacity. Essentially hitting a plateau that wasn't possible prior to the items existence which was only possible via the new game mode.

In the end D3 is supposed to be an exceptionally accessible experience while PoE doesn't need that to accomplish its design. In any case, I haven't played PoE enough to speak of it in anything other than conceptual terms so I can't really weigh in on what feels better. Obviously they hit different audiences with different design tenets and that's fine. Diversity is welcome.

Similarly Marvel Heroes has the same basic linear progression of an ARPG, but it takes a different form in requiring leveling different heroes in order to progress your account to maximum effect.

I guess simply, what I am saying can be summed up as this: seasons in D3 are a neat idea. I support having seasons, but I think the "carry over" idea undermines what is unarguably the only method in which one can play Diablo 3- limited linear progression.

Seasons have no object point to the game design as such. One is choosing to play the game in a worse state by doing so- as a design conflict which Blizzard allow. I feel this is a 'dumb' decision, if you will, for the state of play and moreover a poor(er) choice in design.

Much of everything else I think about D3 is brilliantly and expertly done. I do not wish my critique of seasons as a concept to be interpreted as a condemnation of D3 or some such.

Once again, I do not think the comparison to Path of Exile is entirely valid save in the broadest sense. The goals of D3/POE are quite divergent and have as much validity in comparison as saying Counter Strike and Unreal have guns.

[Lolsteak]

This is factually incorrect. There is no way to play the non-season game without gaining linear progression. To not gain progression one would have to either die in hardcore or not play the game.

You can not play Diablo 3 in any sense that is not a limited linear progression. Every game mechanic guarantees it is so.

But you don't. The character isn't at stake by any means of gameplay nor is the progression made on any particular character not beneficial to the core experience.

"In a sense" is inappropriate. No gameplay mechanism invalidates progression from playing a season. You simply are playing the game worse off.

I want to be clear- I am not talkign what players feel or chose to do. This is not relevant to my commentary on gameplay and it's design.

You seem to misunderstand what I wrote, let me explain, there's a noticeable difference between slight upgrades (a couple % at best) and starting a new character from scratch and building it back up in the limited time available, they're both progression but the leaps are different, the limited time frame of seasons provide a reset and limit to how far you can progress (Which is undeniable a lot less than normal).

I'm not sure what you're trying to make a point about, the whole point of seasons is to start from scratch and do as best you can in that limited amount of time, most people (All the people I know and every single streamer i've seen) do not play normal so the converted season characters are as good as deleted, that converted progression is meaningless.

Seasons are providing new items, achievements and competition so even if somebody played normal (Which from your posts you believe it is the best way to play the game?) they in fact would be playing the game worse off, just take the new Gungdo bracers for example and how good they are for monk, playing seasons has no downsides.

I guess simply, what I am saying can be summed up as this: seasons in D3 are a neat idea. I support having seasons, but I think the "carry over" idea undermines what is unarguably the only method in which one can play Diablo 3- limited linear progression.

For somebody who plays normal sure, but for the people who play seasons only? For me, the people i know and i'm sure many if not all of the streamers as soon as the season is over the characters that transfer over to normal are as good as deleted, that's pretty limited.

[Fencers]

For somebody who plays normal sure, but for the people who play seasons only?

There is no reason to not play normal. You are choosing to play the game worse off. As a point of fact.

How you chose to play the game is not my concern. I am talking about design. The design of seasons is incongruous to default mode of play.

[zito]

There is no reason to not play normal. You are choosing to play the game worse off. As a point of fact.

This. You will see streamers play seasons because there is no other reason not to. If seasons actually mixed things up from normal gameplay there would be a reason to play the game normally.

[Deleted]

Seasons are for people who like the game a lot, don't mind starting over, and like to have some kind of competition in some sort of way, or even NEED it to keep it fresh.

Problem is, at least for me, there is not enough motivation to do it. It's a tricky business tough, if blizzard adds too much "motivation" for seasonal play, then the rest of the playerbase might feel obligated or pidgenholed to do it and QQ will flood the forums. (even now with only just a few new items exclusive, already a lot of people cry over it).


All in all, blizzard is looking at seasonal play as just extra content for more hard-core people. Not as in a end-game content for everyone, just an extra stuff to do - Wich is fine. It doen't interest me in the slightest but i get it that some people need it to keep the game fresh or fun, so go for it.