Danish ships could(?) end up as targets for Russian missiles

[Xarkan]

[ https://translate.google.dk/translat...htm&edit-text= Google translated]

In an opinion piece in Jyllands-Posten Saturday warned the Russian ambassador to Denmark, Mikhail Vanin, that Denmark will be the target of a possible Russian nuclear attack if we join NATO missile defense.

- I do not think that the Danes fully understand the consequences of what happens if Denmark joins the US-led missile defense. If this happens, the Danish warships targets for Russian nuclear missiles, says Mikhail Vanin Jyllands-Posten.

After which he warns that Russia "has missiles that can penetrate guaranteed the future global missile defense system."

So.. how is this news? Our coasts are targetted by Russian missiles (and Denmark is pretty much nothing but coast) and our frigattes are targets as well (possibly not by nukes though because that'd be a complete waste.) How exactly is the proposal that this situation escaletes? What possible cause would we have to fear that the bear will hug us instead of hug us? Are we meant to be completely insane and act against the interests of our allies just in case Russia would do to us what they would probably do to us anyhow?

Is there any possible reason for such an opinion piece by this Russian Ambassador other than for him to see his name mentioned somewhere before he retire?

[PC2]

You've been in NATO for a long time. I agree your just as much targeted as before. No difference.

[Deleted]

Russia is playing the big man cause they want back their glory days of the Cold War.
Russia has nowhere near the military power of NATO, and its economy is taking a huge hit from the drop in the price of oil as well as international sanctions.

Ignore these "displays of power" as they are completely empty and meaningless. Russia is just a school bully, really dangerous in 1v1 situations but when he becomes annoying enough he will just get ganged up against by everyone else and he won't stand a chance.

[Independent voter]

There was this British NATO general on BBC Hard Talk podcast, you can download it for free and listen to it. He said if Russia were to invade Latvia, Estonia, maybe even Poland there is nothing NATO could do about it cause NATO has deteriorated.

Sure, the EU and US would complain, maybe issue more sanctions, but war? No.

[Deleted]

There was this British NATO general on BBC Hard Talk podcast, you can download it for free and listen to it. He said if Russia were to invade Latvia, Estonia, maybe even Poland there is nothing NATO could do about it cause NATO has deteriorated.

Sure, the EU and US would complain, maybe issue more sanctions, but war? No.

NATO is built around the idea of "one for all and all for one", ignoring attacks on NATO affiliated targets will make the NATO accord not worth the paper it's written on, and no one will let that slide. The EU countries, even the "cool guys" club (Germany, France, UK, etc) won't feel safe anymore and the USA will be seen as a joke considering NATO is their baby.

So I seriously doubt attacks on NATO countries, even the border ones, will be met only with more angry letters. It may take a while for NATO to rally but it will happen. Besides, it's not like Russia would just waltz around unopposed.

[Mifuyne]

That would most likely be the last stupid thing Russia would do.

[Kuntantee]

Fear mongering about Russia is really popular these. They actually got away with Crimea because Ukraine was neither in NATO nor in EU. Invading a NATO country means a full-scale war between NATO + EU and Russia. Not going to happen.

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That would most likely be the last stupid thing Russia would do.

No, last stupid thing they would do is sending Europe to stone age.

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Sure, the EU and US would complain, maybe issue more sanctions, but war? No.

War would be inevitable. That's why it's not gonna happen. This is just latest European / USA propaganda, fueling fear into their people. Russia progressing aggressively further in EU means one and one thing only, they will knock the door of big guy's club soon. They won't stay idly.

[Deleted]

Yeah, if nuclear war breaks out between Russia and the NATO, a few ships are going to sink. People might even die *gasp*. I think that's been a reasonable assumption for quite some time already.

[PC2]

There was this British NATO general on BBC Hard Talk podcast, you can download it for free and listen to it. He said if Russia were to invade Latvia, Estonia, maybe even Poland there is nothing NATO could do about it cause NATO has deteriorated.

Sure, the EU and US would complain, maybe issue more sanctions, but war? No.

NATO has not deteriorated. Europe has relatively trimmed it's military, but that doesn't mean NATO isn't strong.

[Deleted]

Yeah, if nuclear war breaks out between Russia and the NATO, a few ships are going to sink. People might even die *gasp*. I think that's been a reasonable assumption for quite some time already.

There is never going to be a nuclear war. If one launches the rockets, everyone else will too, and everything will be a nuclear wasteland even the attacker itself. I fail to see how would this serve anyone's interests unless it's a last resort "I'll take you all down with me!" which would also never happen as invading Russia is a stupid concept by its own.

[PC2]

There is never going to be a nuclear war. If one launches the rockets, everyone else will too, and everything will be a nuclear wasteland even the attacker itself. I fail to see how would this serve anyone's interests unless it's a last resort "I'll take you all down with me!" which would also never happen as invading Russia is a stupid concept by its own.

Several nations have SLBM's. How would you know who sent the nuke? For all you know India could just be trying to get the other factions to blow themselves up.

[Xarkan]

War would be inevitable. That's why it's not gonna happen. This is just latest European / USA propaganda, fueling fear into their people. Russia progressing aggressively further in EU means one and one thing only, they will knock the door of big guy's club soon. They won't stay idly.

So the Russian Ambassador to Denmark is a double agent spewing propaganda to make me hate .. who?

[Deleted]

Denmark should not bend over to anyone, whether is the empty Russian threats or the shallow American scaremongering.

You're vikings for fuck's sake. What happened to your pride?

[Xarkan]

Denmark should not bend over to anyone, whether is the empty Russian threats or the shallow American scaremongering.

You're vikings for fuck's sake. What happened to your pride?

Actually i am amused more than anything? :P

[Deleted]

NATO is built around the idea of "one for all and all for one", ignoring attacks on NATO affiliated targets will make the NATO accord not worth the paper it's written on, and no one will let that slide. The EU countries, even the "cool guys" club (Germany, France, UK, etc) won't feel safe anymore and the USA will be seen as a joke considering NATO is their baby.

This is stupid. If Article 5 is invoked and there is a Russian actual invasion, then NATO would respond.

However, the problem is that future wars, or even current ones, are unlikely to happen with a full scale invasion. They'll be just like Ukraine started, that is, with a few Little Green Men seeping in, insurgents doing some naughty stuff and there will be hard to present conclusive evidence that an invasion just happened.

If a few power stations in Estonia suddenly stops mysteriously working, and there are "concerned local citizenry" evicting Estonian speaking neighbours from their homes? Would the NATO have a large scale invasion justified? No. Yes they did in Kosovo, but only because nuke backing from Russia was declined by Yeltsin. Yeltsin is long gone and Putin do rattle his nukes enough to discourage large scale conventional warfare action from the west.

Except for a few grandiose US invasions, all other wars happening last few decades have been irregulars vs irregulars, and even the grandiose US invasions soon devolved first to US vs irregulars, and now, increasingly, more irregulars vs irregulars in Iraq.

The NATO can't really handle irregular vs irregular situations, so while it will largely prevent a large scale invasion of Europe, it will do nothing against irregular dominated warfare that is probably going to dominate the 21st century.

[Independent voter]

There is never going to be a nuclear war. If one launches the rockets, everyone else will too, and everything will be a nuclear wasteland even the attacker itself. I fail to see how would this serve anyone's interests unless it's a last resort "I'll take you all down with me!" which would also never happen as invading Russia is a stupid concept by its own.

WWII was fought without nerve agent being used even though everyone had it. Even when the Soviets knocked on the door of Hitler's bunker German gas wasn't used.

[Deleted]

Several nations have SLBM's. How would you know who sent the nuke? For all you know India could just be trying to get the other factions to blow themselves up.

ALL launches are detected by radars and satellites. There is no way in hell a nuclear launch could take place and not be detected immediately. Even the missle that hit the plane in Ukraine was detected and the launch site pin pointed in the map.

There is absolutely nothing flying in the air that won't be immediately picked up by satellites and traced back to its origin.

[Mifuyne]

All the nice Russians can come eat cake at my place.
Putin and his buddies are not allowed to join us.

[Kuntantee]

So the Russian Ambassador to Denmark is a double agent spewing propaganda to make me hate .. who?

By "this", I meant the fear mongering don by EU and USA which I stated at the beginning of my post, not statements in the OP.

[Deleted]

This is stupid. If Article 5 is invoked and there is a Russian actual invasion, then NATO would respond.

However, the problem is that future wars, or even current ones, are unlikely to happen with a full scale invasion. They'll be just like Ukraine started, that is, with a few Little Green Men seeping in, insurgents doing some naughty stuff and there will be hard to present conclusive evidence that an invasion just happened.

If a few power stations in Estonia suddenly stops mysteriously working, and there are "concerned local citizenry" evicting Estonian speaking neighbours from their homes? Would the NATO have a large scale invasion justified? No. Yes they did in Kosovo, but only because nuke backing from Russia was declined by Yeltsin. Yeltsin is long gone and Putin do rattle his nukes enough to discourage large scale conventional warfare action from the west.

Except for a few grandiose US invasions, all other wars happening last few decades have been irregulars vs irregulars, and even the grandiose US invasions soon devolved first to US vs irregulars, and now, increasingly, more irregulars vs irregulars in Iraq.

The NATO can't really handle irregular vs irregular situations, so while it will largely prevent a large scale invasion of Europe, it will do nothing against irregular dominated warfare that is probably going to dominate the 21st century.

NATO is obligated to participate should the country ask for help. If Estonia would ask for assistance in any way, NATO can only jump immediately.