Would 8-12 person (Mythic 10) person boss-in-a-box raid zones appeal to you?

[TheMediator]

Something I think FFXIV does that is somewhat appealing to me is the concept of these little miniature raid 'zones' with a bit trash and then a single boss at the end each with a unique theme (fire zone with Ifrit, ice zone with Shiva, for fans of FF series). These raids are 8 person, but the mechanics are tuned ruthlessly hard where a misstep can wipe the whole party and long, complicated multi-phase fights. These raids come in addition to the main 'tiers' of raiding and act as catch-up or supplements to gearing up.

So taking this back into WoW, would you be interested if 6.2 contained a 8-12 (flexible scaling within that range, locked to 10 person in Mythic mode) person 'raid zone' with say, some void elementals and then a multi-phase Ner'zhul fight, to beta-test? We haven't had a raid with the intimacy of Kara since... ever, in my opinion, so I think it'd be fun to have a raid that fits between 5-mans and 'real raids'.

[Rassium]

I'd really enjoy that, but I think there are a few caveats it is impossible to ignore.
1) The difference in dev pipelines between the FF14 team and the WoW team. The FF14 team seems to have a very well structured and organized pipeline, as they're able to regularly deliver decently sized content patches - roughly one every 3 months, although they're not as big as the non-filler WoW patches which usually add a new 10+ boss raid tier. With what Blizzard has said in the past about dungeons and development time, I don't see this as likely.
2) Although these are popular with players, I think it's difficult to make these smaller raids worthwhile long term. FF14 gets around this by adding new difficulties which use the same assets but the fights play out very differently, as well as generally tying these smaller raids into guaranteed item acquisition or general character progress (several were required to do the first raid, but doing them also awarded players with a strong entry level weapon). They kept some relevance since you could level numerous classes on the same character, meaning that completionists would be running these smaller raids many times.

Neither of these issues are insurmountable, but for this kind of thing to work in WoW there would need to be changes made. I wouldn't want to see these implemented at significant costs to a corresponding raid tier, for example.

[Jimson]

As with any other raid, the interest is going to lie in the loot. It'll end up being either A) not worth it because the ilvl is lower, or B) mandatory because the itemization is incredible.

[Athonel]

So what you're suggesting is a 10-person only raid that is complimentary to current raid content/gear? So kinda like Zul'Aman back in BC? I loved ZA. They should definitely bring something like that back. Another thing I liked about ZA was that it was on a 3-day lockout.

[Rassium]

As with any other raid, the interest is going to lie in the loot. It'll end up being either A) not worth it because the ilvl is lower, or B) mandatory because the itemization is incredible.

This is a pretty good point, and FF14 also avoided this. One way they did was by making the stat system significantly less transparent, so it wasn't anywhere near as easy to tell what BiS equipment was (although people were able to figure it out via large scale tests and simulations). It's also avoided because every character can be every class, so you aren't limited to gearing only the class you're currently playing.

[grimsanta]

I don't think blizzard well ever go back to making exclusive content, that is to say those who are at the top of their game, with the exception of bonus bosses or phases in fights (Ra-Den, Sinestra). I'm not sure what purpose it would serve exactly.

However, I do miss some of the 1-boss raids, such as Malagoys, Onyxia, Sarth, and even Ruby Sanctum. I'm not sure why they got away from this exactly, although I do know it takes more resources per boss to create a one-boss raid than it does to create a 10 boss raid. Art assets aren't generally reused, which is a big deal.

The way blizzard talks about art-assets now, I almost think they put too much emphasis on it, and it slows development time to the point where things like this may not be possible.

[Ghâzh]

I don't think blizzard well ever go back to making exclusive content, that is to say those who are at the top of their game, with the exception of bonus bosses or phases in fights (Ra-Den, Sinestra). I'm not sure what purpose it would serve exactly.

However, I do miss some of the 1-boss raids, such as Malagoys, Onyxia, Sarth, and even Ruby Sanctum. I'm not sure why they got away from this exactly, although I do know it takes more resources per boss to create a one-boss raid than it does to create a 10 boss raid. Art assets aren't generally reused, which is a big deal.

The way blizzard talks about art-assets now, I almost think they put too much emphasis on it, and it slows development time to the point where things like this may not be possible.

Problem with these is not that it's a bad concept but the people that make it sound bad. It's either twisted to be "lazy", "half-arsed" or "recycled content" even though the idea would be to just add something extra in between. Would you rather have something small to spend your time on while waiting for the real raid tier? Nope, I'll just sit around doing nothing and complaining.
/rantoff

[TheMediator]

So what you're suggesting is a 10-person only raid that is complimentary to current raid content/gear? So kinda like Zul'Aman back in BC? I loved ZA. They should definitely bring something like that back. Another thing I liked about ZA was that it was on a 3-day lockout.

10-person only on Mythic. It would flex between 8 to 12 people on normal/heroic, so that it always stays small. But yeah, basically something like ZA, something supplemental to main progression for most, but acting as an a form of main progression for smaller groups of players - maybe a group of 8 players who can't raid normal/heroic right now, or who can't get the full 20 for mythic.

As far as 'mandatory or useless', Highmaul right now is outclassed by BRF gear but it isn't completely useless because itemization is different, and there are different trinket effects. A similar concept could exist here.

[Marema]

We already have raids that you can do at 10man. There were already 10 man mythics and those went away in favor of 20 mans. You're asking for what is already available.

Kara was great not because of the raid size but because it was a fun instance. If they made a new Kara it would be 20 man mythic and 10-30 man normal/heroic so if you wanted that intamite feeling you could do it with 10, just like you can do now. I've been running raids with around 13 people and have been havng fun.

I wouldn't mind them scaling raids down to 8 mans and still leaving it as normal/heroic for those of us who could care less about mythic (in any number). If I wanted to raid mythic then I'd join a guild who raids mythic content.

[Krazzorx]

It depends how much the decision on switching to 20m was based on "the amount of people who would only ever run 10m raids isn't worth the cost to design it for 2 difficulties at the very top".

We may see next xpac, raid formats change every 1.5 years on average anyways.

[TheMediator]

Kara was great not because of the raid size but because it was a fun instance. If they made a new Kara it would be 20 man mythic and 10-30 man normal/heroic so if you wanted that intamite feeling you could do it with 10, just like you can do now. I've been running raids with around 13 people and have been havng fun.

It isn't just your raid size, the spaces themselves were designed around a smaller size so they feel tighter and more personal.

"the amount of people who would only ever run 10m raids isn't worth the cost to design it for 2 difficulties at the very top".

For the same fight. These fights would have no 20 man variant so they'd only be designed for one mythic raid size.

[ddsad2212]

Yes I've always prefered smaller groups

[Arbs]

It sounds like a cool idea, but I don't think it would work aswell in WoW as it would in other games.

[Deleted]

Mythic only content?

What about no?

[Arbs]

If I wanted to raid mythic then I'd join a guild who raids mythic content.

Now I wish everyone had this mindset.

[TheMediator]

Mythic only content?

What about no?

Where did you get the idea this was mythic-only?

What about 8-12 flexible makes you think 'Mythic Only'?

[Bryntrollian]

The game doesn't need anything else in regards to raiding

[TheMediator]

The game doesn't need anything else in regards to raiding

Doesn't it though? See, there's this disconnect between the game having content, and people whining about not having content to play, because those people think raiding isn't for them, when it could be. The idea needs to be to make the raiding accessible, by providing another stepping stone between smaller 5-manish content and more structured raids, and something like 8 people could be pretty sweet for them.

[Deleted]

Where did you get the idea this was mythic-only?

Sorry, misread. Sure, why not? Anything else than raiding is a good idea.

I dont think it should have a mythic difficulty. As there just are not enough players to justify a special mythic difficulty.

And it should be available via matchmaking.

[Polarthief]

Problem with these is not that it's a bad concept but the people that make it sound bad. It's either twisted to be "lazy", "half-arsed" or "recycled content" even though the idea would be to just add something extra in between. Would you rather have something small to spend your time on while waiting for the real raid tier? Nope, I'll just sit around doing nothing and complaining.
/rantoff

Well the problem is that Blizzard IS lazy when they keep holding raid tiers hostage if we ask for ANYTHING else, which is funny because all they HAVE given us is a raid tier... a half-assed one at that.