Why are Republicans so Obsessed with Israel?

[Kruncholyo]

Taking land of others and forming your own country there, is well not a normal thing a group of people do.

And yet the US is told to accept over 11 million illegal aliens and Europe is told to accept millions of illegal entrants as well - and we damn sure better let them keep their customs and language and way of life or we're evil assimilationists and xenophobes.
I guess it's ok so long as it's being done to the 'wrong' people.

[Acidbaron]

Really? The only other faction/nation/ideology you can think of that promotes the seizure of land is fucking fascism? Golly gee fuckin' whiz good to know that imperialism was never and is not a thing! Manifest destiny? Nah! British colonies? Never heard of them! Post-WW2 Russia? Just a bunch of fascists!

I love how we can apparently just pick and choose which parts of history we want to acknowledge and the context we would like to view it through. Whatever best fits your personal narrative, right?



Oh. Yeah. RIGHTTT. We stopped sticking our fingers in the proverbial pie after WW2. Totally. No way did we engage in multiple wars/proxy-wars over the past few decades to ensure us and our allies remained on top!

I mean, can you really call it a landgrab when you're just overthrowing governments to install your personal puppets at the head? Boy we sure learned our lesson!

And by 'lesson' I mean plausible deniability.

You're right there's more, but only fascism came up in my head.

Wars done to take land permanently by western nations? Could be there has been some but not that i know off. Most wars i can think of were for other reasons not to gain land. Falklands war come to mind but that's not a western nation that started it.

[u13erfitz]

Taking land of others and forming your own country there, is well not a normal thing a group of people do.

So what would you have Israel do now? They are already there, would you just kick them out? Would you have them all leave for other countries? They are already there and the rest of the world has to deal with it. The only way a two state solution works is if the other countries in the middle east formally recognize Israel. No one is expecting them to like it, but they can't attack them because they don't like them. You keep talking about the past, but quite frankly that doesn't matter. This is the thinking that causes people to keep attacking Israel.

[Acidbaron]

And yet the US is told to accept over 11 million illegal aliens and Europe is told to accept millions of illegal entrants as well - and we damn sure better let them keep their customs and language and way of life or we're evil assimilationists and xenophobes.
I guess it's ok so long as it's being done to the 'wrong' people.

huh, you know the difference between immigration and actually taking land right?

Also yes to let people adjust to their new country you need to give them the freedom and rights to exercise their customs, a lot of the alienation came from failed immigration policies in european countries, but that' a different topic and i still fail to see the relevance to the argument you just made.

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So what would you have Israel do now? They are already there, would you just kick them out? Would you have them all leave for other countries? They are already there and the rest of the world has to deal with it. The only way a two state solution works is if the other countries in the middle east formally recognize Israel. No one is expecting them to like it, but they can't attack them because they don't like them. You keep talking about the past, but quite frankly that doesn't matter. This is the thinking that causes people to keep attacking Israel.

Hello brave 1 post guy,

We are speaking of things in the past and nowhere did i say i was in favor of removing the country, it wouldn't solve anything. So far i've spoken out how it came to be and how Israel behaves itself, the latter being a thing they fully control and can change.

The "confirmation" of Isreal will start to come once the two state solution is there, they aren't going to acknowledge it before that for the very simple reason by doing so a two state solution never will come to pass. Israel is getting attacked because also of how much controversy it stirs up by their actions, the mere presence of the jewish state doesn't infuriate others enough the actions however does. The use of weapons with main intend to mutilate ensures Israel to have many more generations of Palestinians to come that continue to find new reasons to hate them.

I wonder what country would actually even attack Israel. Iran? nope, that would leave them weak after making it easy for their other rivals the saudies to step in.

I find the whole "Israel is in constant danger" to be heavily overplayed.

[Hammerfest]

The Second Coming. No, I am not kidding

Bingo! Historic theologians will tell you that the only purpose of the United States, from an eschatological stand-point, is the shepherding of Israel up until the Tribulation and Second Coming.

Edited to add: This is as far as I will discuss the matter, since religious discussion isn't allowed on these forums.

[u13erfitz]

huh, you know the difference between immigration and actually taking land right?

Also yes to let people adjust to their new country you need to give them the freedom and rights to exercise their customs, a lot of the alienation came from failed immigration policies in european countries, but that' a different topic and i still fail to see the relevance to the argument you just made.

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Hello brave 1 post guy,

We are speaking of things in the past and nowhere did i say i was in favor of removing the country, it wouldn't solve anything. So far i've spoken out how it came to be and how Israel behaves itself, the latter being a thing they fully control and can change.

The "confirmation" of Isreal will start to come once the two state solution is there, they aren't going to acknowledge it before that for the very simple reason by doing so a two state solution never will come to pass. Israel is getting attacked because also of how much controversy it stirs up by their actions, the mere presence of the jewish state doesn't infuriate others enough the actions however does. The use of weapons with main intend to mutilate ensures Israel to have many more generations of Palestinians to come that continue to find new reasons to hate them.

I wonder what country would actually even attack Israel. Iran? nope, that would leave them weak after making it easy for their other rivals the saudies to step in.

I find the whole "Israel is in constant danger" to be heavily overplayed.

Saudi's are not going to ally with Iran in a million years. They just started bombing the Yemen rebels who are backed by Iran. Iran wants nothing more than to take over the Saudis because they view them as being aligned with the west. Also you are assuming that the threats come from countries which is missing the point. Israel and to larger extent the West in general is fighting fanatics. The only country in the middle east that is an issue is Iran. Mostly you have hamas, hezzbolah, Al qaeda, and various Iranian back rebels running around. The issue is they use the land right around Israel to launch attacks. Moreover they have commited genocides before so there is little reason to trust them. Also it would be very easy for them to sign a deal that says you get land but in return you say I am allowed X land. the real sticking point is Hamas will not honor any deals. It is important to remember Hamas has always broken the piece. When people are trying to kill you no response is inappropriate.

[Slicer299]

That land was in conflict before reliable written records could even be kept, archaeological records tell us this. This whole notion that it "belongs to" the Israelites is subjective belief of Christians, Israelites, and their buddies. All of the Abhrahamic religions have their roots in that area, meaning that they all share an origin there, including the Islams. Just because the Jews have the same origin as those currently living there does not set some kind of precedent for it belonging to them today, such that they have the right to start shooting missiles.

If your qualifier for who rightly owns a piece of land is whoever lived there thousands of years ago, how would you distinguish between those who lived there thousands of years ago, and those who lived there thousands of years ago and currently live there now.

There are plenty of other areas that they could settle without displacing and killing anyone in the process, but they want that area, where people are currently living.

But as long as the US is busy helping liberate people's ancestral homes, how about we start shooting missiles at anyone who refuses to give up their home to native Americans?

Again, go read some history. The Kingdom of Israel dates back over 3,000 and is the first government established in that land. But even before then the Israeli people settled everything from what is now Gaza along with what is now modern day Syria and Jordan. All of which is supported by the archaeological records you mention.

Over the last 3000+ years more and more land has been stolen from the Israeli people, but that land belongs to them and no one else.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Again, go read some history. The Kingdom of Israel dates back over 3,000 and is the first government established in that land. But even before then the Israeli people settled everything from what is now Gaza along with what is now modern day Syria and Jordan. All of which is supported by the archaeological records you mention.

Over the last 3000+ years more and more land has been stolen from the Israeli people, but that land belongs to them and no one else.

Usually you don't support claims that date back more than a couple of generations, because that whacko shit opens quite a big ass can of worms. Going by that logic you could justify quite a few landgrabs for some ethnic groups.

[Orbitus]

Again, go read some history. The Kingdom of Israel dates back over 3,000 and is the first government established in that land. But even before then the Israeli people settled everything from what is now Gaza along with what is now modern day Syria and Jordan. All of which is supported by the archaeological records you mention.

Over the last 3000+ years more and more land has been stolen from the Israeli people, but that land belongs to them and no one else.

And none of that matters in modern day countryhood. Simply because if we were to go back to where countries were allowed to keep what they take, the Ottoman Empire would own that area as they were the last real empire until WW1.

[Damajin]

I wish dyed in the wool Republicans would get off the Israel train, and they'd boot the neocons/interventionists out of the upper echelons of that party. All the military and economic aid we're shoveling their way should stay in our own coffers. Any country that sports its own nukes and has an agency as powerful and capable as the Mossad can take care of itself, even if they won't own up to the fact that they have them.

[Hammerfest]

The initial creation? No.

Yep. All part of the plan.

[angelsdeath]

Nothing. Isreal can and has defended themselves without our help.

There is no such thing as an Israel without our help.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

and most liberal like to generalize large groups of people.

Ironic. Using a generalization to accuse a large group of people of making generalizations about large groups of people.