Ashran and the PvP dispersion

[Deleted]

Now, ever since they removed the conquest points from bosses and "fixed" Ashran queues it became quite obvious: Ashran is not a failure because of design of the zone or objectives it is simply unplayable and not fun for any faction because of...racials. Yep, you read that right. Racials are the reason why Ashran isn't an awesome experience. Racials are the reason why 95% (which is a lot) of the PvP player base are on Alliance and 5% on horde. PvP player or not, every player will still try to cap the 1700 conquest points each week, well, because its free gear.

You can either cap in Ashran or in Arenas. All Alliance players cap in Arena and all Horde players in Ashran. This has the following consequences:

- it takes forever for Horde players to cap waiting in Ashran for the events and then flooding them with 80+ people for 100 conquest points each.
- you can't get the 200 Ashran-only cap as an Alliance players anymore, who still needs gear.
- Horde players don't do Arenas and thus won't get better in PvP making the whole dilemma with racials even worse.

To solve this Blizzard can:

- remove racials and offer free faction change (and allow cross faction arena teams)
- remove the ability to gain more than 200 conquest points in Ashran

[Professor Expert]

Now, ever since they removed the conquest points from bosses and "fixed" Ashran queues it became quite obvious: Ashran is not a failure because of design of the zone or objectives it is simply unplayable and not fun for any faction because of...racials. Yep, you read that right. Racials are the reason why Ashran isn't an awesome experience. Racials are the reason why 95% (which is a lot) of the PvP player base are on Alliance and 5% on horde. PvP player or not, every player will still try to cap the 1700 conquest points each week, well, because its free gear.

No they are not, not even close. Also, individual "pvp skill" matters a whole lot less when you're part of a big mob as in ashran than it does in small skirmishes like 2s and 3s. Ashran is a numbers game. The side with the larger group tends to win and that's the extent of it.

You can either cap in Ashran or in Arenas. All Alliance players cap in Arena and all Horde players in Ashran. This has the following consequences:

- it takes forever for Horde players to cap waiting in Ashran for the events and then flooding them with 80+ people for 100 conquest points each.
- you can't get the 200 Ashran-only cap as an Alliance players anymore, who still needs gear.
- Horde players don't do Arenas and thus won't get better in PvP making the whole dilemma with racials even worse.

To solve this Blizzard can:

- remove racials and offer free faction change (and allow cross faction arena teams)
- remove the ability to gain more than 200 conquest points in Ashran

Or how about this solution: Join an ashran raid using the LF Premade tool BEFORE you enter ashran.

[Nihilan]

It is now a meme to rip on Ashran, even those who, given their posts, obviously do not participate or have the slightest clue about the zone or what takes place there (OP for example) are visiting PvP forums to shit-talk the place. Its like never having listened to Justin Bieber or Nickelback, but hating on them anyways because its just what people do on forums.

Im not one to sing Holinka's praises, and Zeus knows there are a lot of things i would like to change... but Racials? Really?

Also, i guess i was hallucinating the 90 or so horde i was healing last night that were curb-stomping alliance for like two hours straight. Two full raids plus change. And who knows how long the group was running before i even got there.

[Musta]

Im glad im not doing any pvp on this expac =P

[Deleted]

Im not one to sing Holinka's praises, and Zeus knows there are a lot of things i would like to change... but Racials? Really?

Why it's racials? I explained it in depth and clearly understandable for everyone.

Also, i guess i was hallucinating the 90 or so horde i was healing last night that were curb-stomping alliance for like two hours straight. Two full raids plus change. And who knows how long the group was running before i even got there.

there you have it. that's axactly what my thread is about. thanks for the confirmation. now everyone has an example of what is going wrong in Ashran.

[KillerKm8]

I have found in the last week even randoms for horde are unplayable, just getting ganked by small groups of alliance who refuse to split up. Winning about 1 in 5 if that

[xindralol]

racials have (almost) nothing to do with it. most pvpers are alliance because it simply opens a bigger pool of people to play with.
ashran is a failure because it's simply not fun. and now it's not even worth doing for CP anymore, let alone cap. all the changes to ashran since release have only made it more obnoxious. reason people didn't pvp in ashran is because pvp in between pve mobs is simply not fun.

[Deleted]

There's a much easier way. Use LFG tool find a faction premade join it win CP and move on with your game life. I don't understand why you need to complicate such a simple thing.

LFG tool does nothing for Alliance all it does is make the mobs of Horde players even stronger. even if you join a 30+ premade Alliance group there will still be 80+ Hode players at the event area. just facts. pretty simple.

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most pvpers are alliance because it simply opens a bigger pool of people to play with.

which came to be BECAUSE of the racials. its just sad.

[otro]

As a alliance player i gave up on ashran, after the last change horde just farm our base until the next event is announced, then they rush the event and resume the base farming until the next announcment.

It's terrible.

[Nihilan]

I dont know how many hundreds of times it needs to be posted in this forum... But i will add yet another to the counter... USE THE GROUP FINDER.

1) Press H.
2) Click "Premade Groups" at the bottom (or whatever its called).
3) Select Ashran from the list on the Right-side pane.
4) Click "Find Group"
5) Find a group that is doing whatever it is you want to do in the zone. Endless whining aside, there are going to be winning groups for your faction.
6) If there doesnt seem to be many groups doing what you want spend a couple minutes spamming the refresh icon. The group list updates every few seconds.
7) Once you find a group. Apply to join. Some may have ilevel requirements, most do not. Many are on auto-invite, but some are not. Do not go all moody and emo if you get declined - its not personal. Just find another group to apply too.
8) Once you are in the raid, then and ONLY then do you queue for Ashran. If you enter Ashran and then use the group finder to join a raid, you will almost certainly not be in that raid's Ashran instance. You will then have to leave the zone and re-queue to join the rest of your teammates.

[Deleted]

they should just remove combat racials already

I mean +5 in x profession is fine

[Warlord Booty]

When you say "All" I stop paying attention. You are clearly wrong.

[Deleted]

Long time ago I faction changed to alliance because of racials, I think I had 4 or 5 horde chars. After the 3rd or 4th consecutive nerf to Will of the Forsaken, the one that made it share CD with the PvP trinket, I faction changed. WotF has an unparalleled nerf history, definitley more than I could handle. IT WAS JUST TOO MUCH! I wish I could go back.

On topic: meanwhile Ashran works well for me, as Alliance. I just need to join a group with the group finder, then everything is fine. Joining a random ashran is not recommended. I think that it's the same for horde, use the group finder.

[rorian]

Racials are the reason why 95% (which is a lot) of the PvP player base are on Alliance and 5% on horde.

While your argument makes sense, where did you get this number from? The gap between alliance and horde pvp populations probably isn't nearly that large. It is probably more likely a 60/40 split, but even then that's a complete guess and there is no true way to know that number. I think there is merit to your argument however, and believe that racials actually makes the game boring in a lot of ways as if you want to truly min/max for pvp, you are forced to play human, so you end up with a lot of people playing the same race.

[Professor Expert]

they should just remove combat racials already

I mean +5 in x profession is fine

No they shouldn't...the racial abilities are fine and they add dimension to a game that is increasingly becoming one-dimensional due to blizzard implementing comments like this. Variety and imbalances make the game more interesting and fun. Players need to accept that they have strengths and weaknesses...that's all.

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While your argument makes sense, where did you get this number from? The gap between alliance and horde pvp populations probably isn't nearly that large. It is probably more likely a 60/40 split, but even then that's a complete guess and there is no true way to know that number. I think there is merit to your argument however, and believe that racials actually makes the game boring in a lot of ways as if you want to truly min/max for pvp, you are forced to play human, so you end up with a lot of people playing the same race.

You don't really "min/max" for pvp because it's inherently more dynamic than pve. In pve, you do not get CC-chained, your healer is not the primary target of attacks, you are often forced to play defensively or to avoid an attacker altogether with positioning or LoS and you constantly have to react to multiple targets' actions as well as track their position on the field.

There are plenty of instances where you'll gimp yourself if you simply focus on "max DPS or HPS" and ignore stats that may work better in the kind of situations that pvp presents. For example, haste may not be the highest-weighted stat for sheer DPS/HPS output...but in pvp you may only have a window of 3-5 seconds so getting a fast cast off is better than going for a slower cast that heals for more, but is unlikely to be used with the same frequency.

Multistrike is a pretty good stat for pvp in general because it amplifies the DPS/HPS you are doing while you are actually doing it even if the max theoretical output is lower than stacking something like mastery, crit or even versatility...the reason being that your uptime as either a healer or attacker is substantially less than pve, and also inconsistent.

[rorian]

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You don't really "min/max" for pvp because it's inherently more dynamic than pve. In pve, you do not get CC-chained, your healer is not the primary target of attacks, you are often forced to play defensively or to avoid an attacker altogether with positioning or LoS and you constantly have to react to multiple targets' actions as well as track their position on the field.

There are plenty of instances where you'll gimp yourself if you simply focus on "max DPS or HPS" and ignore stats that may work better in the kind of situations that pvp presents. For example, haste may not be the highest-weighted stat for sheer DPS/HPS output...but in pvp you may only have a window of 3-5 seconds so getting a fast cast off is better than going for a slower cast that heals for more, but is unlikely to be used with the same frequency.

Multistrike is a pretty good stat for pvp in general because it amplifies the DPS/HPS you are doing while you are actually doing it even if the max theoretical output is lower than stacking something like mastery, crit or even versatility...the reason being that your uptime as either a healer or attacker is substantially less than pve, and also inconsistent.

You absolutely min/max for PvP...the min/max values are just different for PvP than they are for PvE.

If player A and player B are both equal skill but player A is human wearing an extra damage trinket, while player B is a gnome with only 1 damage trinket because they have to wear a CC breaker, player A has the opportunity to do more damage, therefore is stronger by whatever value you want to put on that.

Does that mean 100% of games player A will outperform player B? No because RNG, but min/max is about getting the most value possible out of your character whether it be stats,gear,spec and in this case race.

Min/Max does not mean yolo focusing on DPS/HPS as you are suggesting for some reason. It means minimizing parts of your character that do not give as much value, while maximizing in places that give the most value. If you aren't doing this in PvP then you aren't giving yourself the opportunity to perform at the fullest potential.

[ellieg]

You absolutely min/max for PvP...the min/max values are just different for PvP than they are for PvE.

If player A and player B are both equal skill but player A is human wearing an extra damage trinket, while player B is a gnome with only 1 damage trinket because they have to wear a CC breaker, player A has the opportunity to do more damage, therefore is stronger by whatever value you want to put on that.

Does that mean 100% of games player A will outperform player B? No because RNG, but min/max is about getting the most value possible out of your character whether it be stats,gear,spec and in this case race.

Min/Max does not mean yolo focusing on DPS/HPS as you are suggesting for some reason. It means minimizing parts of your character that do not give as much value, while maximizing in places that give the most value. If you aren't doing this in PvP then you aren't giving yourself the opportunity to perform at the fullest potential.

I wouldnt waste my time arguing with this one. You should see some of his other posts.
Also he talks about how stacking multistrike is good for pvp because it increases your DPS. No. If you get lucky and every attack multistrikes (even though it can only proc once instead of twice in pvp) it could be more burst compared to a pure mastery/haste/vers build, but the DPS would be way lower. I do not know one class that prefers stacking multistrike over any other stats.

Read through this guys's posts. Him, rinnegan, and dragonmaw are all clueless about pvp. Id reccomend avoiding them.

[rorian]

I wouldnt waste my time arguing with this one. You should see some of his other posts.
Also he talks about how stacking multistrike is good for pvp because it increases your DPS. No. If you get lucky and every attack multistrikes (even though it can only proc once instead of twice in pvp) it could be more burst compared to a pure mastery/haste/vers build, but the DPS would be way lower. I do not know one class that prefers stacking multistrike over any other stats.

Read through this guys's posts. Him, rinnegan, and dragonmaw are all clueless about pvp. Id reccomend avoiding them.

Thanks good to know

[Baracuda]

Racials my ass. This is just losers make excuses. Sure the alliance racials are more powerful which might cause some to go alliance (monkey see monkey do) but it's not make or break in a non-competitive environment.

[clevin]

there you have it. that's axactly what my thread is about. thanks for the confirmation. now everyone has an example of what is going wrong in Ashran.

Your post claimed only 5% of PVPers were horde. His post noted that the Horde was kicking the Alliances asses. His point contradicts yours.

Professor is correct - it's a numbers game. If you have a significant advantage in numbers you will win. Racials don't matter at all except to crappy PVPers and people at the very high end where they can't improve skill much. Nothing about Ashran caters to high end play, really.