Could Ephial be a dreadlord?

[Gadzooks]

I'm not sorry you're mad someone disagrees. You do realize discussions have opposing viewpoints, right?

This is nothing close to a discussion, it was yet another point by point "NO YOU WRONG" post that gave nothing, and all it did was to prop up your ego.

And I'm not mad - I threw up my hands in disgust at your anal retentive "grading" of my comments and made a mental not to not bother engaging with you again, as it's pointless. It's disgust I'm feeling, not anger.

[KrazyK923]

This is nothing close to a discussion, it was yet another point by point "NO YOU WRONG" post that gave nothing, and all it did was to prop up your ego.

What ego? This is a video game website and a subforum where we discuss a video game's lore. I think you give way too much significance to how much I, or anybody honestly, gives to this topic. But I do find it weird you ignored literally every single reason why I gave to disagreeing with you and focused just on the disagreement part. Like I said, I think you're looking for an echo chamber, not a discussion.

I pointed out exactly why I disagreed, and you seemingly got upset. That's fine. Just leave then if you don't want to continue the discussion. You're adding literally nothing to the conversation at this point other than being butthurt somebody disagreed with you. As such I'm just going to report your post and move on.

[Jokubas]

But we know Wrathion was actively warning and helping Taylor. Seems like kind of a huge swing for him to then immediately go all the way to, "Time to kill him."

I see that a lot. It seems to come from a misconception that Wrathion is a villain. He can be an antagonist, and he certainly was in breaking Garrosh out, but there's a key difference. Wrathion, ultimately, wants to save our planet just like we do. He's just willing to sacrifice more to do it. He was okay with Garrosh taking over if it meant he could stop the Legion. Letting that many people die can make you a villain even when you mean well, but the key to his character was in his discussions with the Celestials. Wrathion doesn't have hope. It's not that he thought it was okay for Garrosh to kill all of those people to create a force capable of holding back the Legion, it's that he truly believed it was our best chance.

Yeah I think Occam's Razor probably applies here.

He's a Necromancer and we know the Cult of the Damned had Necromancers, and its unlikely literally 100% of them died at the end of Wrath (or even Cataclysm).

Just very strange, even still, that they'd choose to do this ministory with one and never bring it up again while killing off a fairly long-time character exclusive to WoW.

That's one of the things that really bothered me about Taylor's death, but who knows, it could be intentional. For once it could be Blizzard slipping in a future plot before it's relevant. That would be really neat.

[KrazyK923]

I see that a lot. It seems to come from a misconception that Wrathion is a villain. He can be an antagonist, and he certainly was in breaking Garrosh out, but there's a key difference. Wrathion, ultimately, wants to save our planet just like we do. He's just willing to sacrifice more to do it. He was okay with Garrosh taking over if it meant he could stop the Legion. Letting that many people die can make you a villain even when you mean well, but the key to his character was in his discussions with the Celestials. Wrathion doesn't have hope. It's not that he thought it was okay for Garrosh to kill all of those people to create a force capable of holding back the Legion, it's that he truly believed it was our best chance.

Yeah I do agree with you here, but I don't know if Taylor himself was a sacrifice. Since Taylor has been pretty historically willing to do what seems to be thought as "right." Mainly because its not like Taylor was standing in the way of anything Wrathion had to do. Like I mentioned earlier, Wrathion isn't a wimpy dude, he could have rolled up to Taylor's garrison and just taken over. The fact that he was willing to help Taylor by giving him resources and advising him about a person in his garrison which WAS revealed to be evil I think shows he was at least trying to help them to further his own agenda, if not just straight up being nice to Taylor and helping him.

I do agree with you though that people tend to think that Wrathion is a straight up villain, when he most certainly isn't. And I think its a huge disservice to his character to paint him as a bad guy. The fact that he is so ridiculously grey (And not evil, but solid grey) is why I really like his character. Before Wrathion, I think the closest Blizzard ever got to a truly neutral character was Illidan, but with Wrathion they just nailed that on the head perfectly.

I agree and disagree with you about his conversations with the Celestials. I'm not sure if he doesn't have hope, but I think its clear he's so set in his way and believes that he's right that it doesn't matter what these supposed beings of immense wisdom and strength tell him. Wrathion is very much a child in this regard, and while they do hit on it a bit during the 5.3 conversations, I wish it would have been brought up by somebody else. Maybe by Tong in his outburst at the end of the 5.4 legendary chain. I generally thought Tong was full of shit and completely wrong, but would have been right if he mentioned that Wrathion was acting like a petulant child who always thought he was right. In that regard he very much was.

That's one of the things that really bothered me about Taylor's death, but who knows, it could be intentional. For once it could be Blizzard slipping in a future plot before it's relevant. That would be really neat.

I really hope so, but after the terrible story of WoD, I'm not optimistic.

[Aucald]

That's one of the things that really bothered me about Taylor's death, but who knows, it could be intentional. For once it could be Blizzard slipping in a future plot before it's relevant. That would be really neat.

Blizzard actually slips a lot of future plot hints and McGuffins into the game, often without people being wise to them. I can recall:

- Kel'Thuzad's phylactery dropped in the original Naxxramas raid, returned to Inigo Montoy who became the Lich Thel'zan, a plot not picked up until WotLK.
- The Ashbringer itself with many plot hooks all over, not picked up until WotLK.
- Umbranse the Spiritspeaker, the oddly truncated end of the original Eranikus questline, which is picked up again in Cata.
- Chen's Lost Keg in Kalimdor, the only item in WoW up until MoP that quantified the existence of Pandaren outside of in-jokes and April Fool's.
- Gilthares Firebough, who back in Vanilla presaged the Blood Elves being a Horde race.

There are plenty more little surprises littered in the game, those were a few I could think up off the top of my head. I'm of the opinion Blizzard keeps these little odds and ends around to leave them room to expand, sometimes they pick back up the thread of a story and sometimes they opt to just leave it. I think the Taylor/Ephial events in the Spires are a similar thing - a story they might return to or might just be a one-off strange occurrence.

[Krazzorx]

Of course, there was Vashjir too.

[Splub]

- Chen's Lost Keg in Kalimdor, the only item in WoW up until MoP that quantified the existence of Pandaren outside of in-jokes and April Fool's.

Wc3 quantified it enough by having Chen and other Pandaren appear and be apart of the story hence why he had a lost keg in Kalimdor. That keg was more of a reference to the Rexxar campaign from TFT.

[Arrashi]

Im pretty sure that if he was dreadlord he would transform during combat. They always do that. He is probably some crazy guy serving wrathion on his retarded quest for something.

[Aucald]

Wc3 quantified it enough by having Chen and other Pandaren appear and be apart of the story hence why he had a lost keg in Kalimdor. That keg was more of a reference to the Rexxar campaign from TFT.

The only item in WoW. They had a relatively minor appearance in Warcraft 3, but none in WoW save the keg reference until MoP.

[Rhlor]

Cult of the Damned

[Krazzorx]

Cult of the Damned

I would think that it's more likely he is a lone wolf than that. Of all evil organizations it's a long time since we've seen them.

The only way that would be accurate I could see is if we are all wrong on next xpac and its a new Scourge xpac.

(Learning he's part of the cult would require this story line expanded)

[Rhlor]

I would think that it's more likely he is a lone wolf than that. Of all evil organizations it's a long time since we've seen them.

The only way that would be accurate I could see is if we are all wrong on next xpac and its a new Scourge xpac.

(Learning he's part of the cult would require this story line expanded)

keltuzad is alive