Can shadow priests top meters? is proper play rewarding?

[Luis Oscar]

I know this is a completely subjective question, and many people would simply say that it depends on the player.
But assuming the skill is not an issue, can they?

The reason why i ask this is because i main a warlock. Before the demonbolt nerf the gameplay was quite interesting. A well timed proc organization with a good DB rotation with cds would spike my dps. Decision making was about actively looking to have this High dps window uninterrupted by mechanics (delay stuff so that everything aligns etc etc). Now since this talent is not viable anymore, there are is no snapshotting and other stuff warlocks are feeling dull to me.

So i thought about changing to shadow priests, it might just be my experience, or that i don't join pugs so much but i don't see priests up top so often, its usually a mage or a hunter.

So my question could also be more like, is playing a shadow priest properly rewarding dps wise? Like cds and decision making? since the only active CD i can see is mind bender i would asume that if i get procs as a shadow priest nothing much would change from my rotation. Then i read about CoP and dot weaving and it seems complex, so i would think that if it is executed correctly it gives lots of dps.

Would anyone be so kind to share their opinion on this matter?

[sizzlinsauce]

some bosses we can. blackhand mythic, blast furnace, and beastlord.

[bicycle]

If lack of snapshotting made you bored of your warlock, you won't find solace in shadow priest either. Mindbender is a niche talent that is optimal on only a couple of fights, and even on those it's not undisputed, and as you said we run no other real cooldown. Without mindbender, there's shadowfiend during lust or when you really need an instant cast, but it's not much for dps.

As for CoP dot weaving, it's not that complex. It's memorization, and it isn't that good for DPS outside of a few single target fights. The obvious way to play COP replaces mind flay with mind spike at the expense of never using dots. Dot weaving is a non-obvious way to play where you apply dots once you're at shadow orb cap, and then you can extend a plague/insanity/mind blast rotation for long enough for your dots to tick through without being removed by a mind spike. You just have to memorize the cast sequence required to accomplish that. Oh and for your memorization efforts, you're rewarded with poor single target DPS.

As for "procs," the only ones that matter are when playing AS and your shadow word pain crits. That generates a shadow orb, and the AS playstyle is all about generating as many orbs as possible and spending them on devouring plague without wasting any. AS is a fun play style, but it's not as complicated as snapshotting was either.

[Deleted]

If lack of snapshotting made you bored of your warlock, you won't find solace in shadow priest either. Mindbender is a niche talent that is optimal on only a couple of fights, and even on those it's not undisputed, and as you said we run no other real cooldown. Without mindbender, there's shadowfiend during lust or when you really need an instant cast, but it's not much for dps.

As for CoP dot weaving, it's not that complex. It's memorization, and it isn't that good for DPS outside of a few single target fights. The obvious way to play COP replaces mind flay with mind spike at the expense of never using dots. Dot weaving is a non-obvious way to play where you apply dots once you're at shadow orb cap, and then you can extend a plague/insanity/mind blast rotation for long enough for your dots to tick through without being removed by a mind spike. You just have to memorize the cast sequence required to accomplish that. Oh and for your memorization efforts, you're rewarded with poor single target DPS.

As for "procs," the only ones that matter are when playing AS and your shadow word pain crits. That generates a shadow orb, and the AS playstyle is all about generating as many orbs as possible and spending them on devouring plague without wasting any. AS is a fun play style, but it's not as complicated as snapshotting was either.

If you are starting dotweave rotation at 5 orbs, you are doing it wrong.

[Luis Oscar]

If lack of snapshotting made you bored of your warlock, you won't find solace in shadow priest either. Mindbender is a niche talent that is optimal on only a couple of fights, and even on those it's not undisputed, and as you said we run no other real cooldown. Without mindbender, there's shadowfiend during lust or when you really need an instant cast, but it's not much for dps.

As for CoP dot weaving, it's not that complex. It's memorization, and it isn't that good for DPS outside of a few single target fights. The obvious way to play COP replaces mind flay with mind spike at the expense of never using dots. Dot weaving is a non-obvious way to play where you apply dots once you're at shadow orb cap, and then you can extend a plague/insanity/mind blast rotation for long enough for your dots to tick through without being removed by a mind spike. You just have to memorize the cast sequence required to accomplish that. Oh and for your memorization efforts, you're rewarded with poor single target DPS.

As for "procs," the only ones that matter are when playing AS and your shadow word pain crits. That generates a shadow orb, and the AS playstyle is all about generating as many orbs as possible and spending them on devouring plague without wasting any. AS is a fun play style, but it's not as complicated as snapshotting was either.

What distinguishes a good shadow priest from a bad one? Like demonology warlock back in pandaria was a complex spec based on timing (specially the leishen trinket part) and at the begining of wod was on the burst windows (demonbolt thing). So you could totally see some huge dps variations if people were using the pocs from trinkets properly. the new warlock with demonic servitude is just wait for something to proc go into meta and pew pew, then when our big cd is is about to come off cd pool enough resources to burst while it is active. its kinda meh but still requires some attention.

I am just worried priest gameplay is like that of frost mages where you just press whatever appears on your screen.

[Gande]

AS is a lot of RNG. The only slightly skillful part of play is getting to 5 orbs and then gaming your mind blast and any shadows going in, so that you can extend your set bonus stacks as long as possible.

[bicycle]

If you are starting dotweave rotation at 5 orbs, you are doing it wrong.

Forgive me for not typing out the whole fucking cast sequence.

[Keosen]

If you are starting dotweave rotation at 5 orbs, you are doing it wrong.

5orb weave it's a valid rotation, what the actual fuck are you talking about?

[justflayin]

What distinguishes a good shadow priest from a bad one? Like demonology warlock back in pandaria was a complex spec based on timing (specially the leishen trinket part) and at the begining of wod was on the burst windows (demonbolt thing). So you could totally see some huge dps variations if people were using the pocs from trinkets properly. the new warlock with demonic servitude is just wait for something to proc go into meta and pew pew, then when our big cd is is about to come off cd pool enough resources to burst while it is active. its kinda meh but still requires some attention.

I am just worried priest gameplay is like that of frost mages where you just press whatever appears on your screen.

The same thing you sort of use to measure a good player for any class really. Use of spells (i.e. mind blast being used on cooldown), dot and buff uptimes where applicable. Shadow is one of the more engaging specs to play right now. Definitely more so than frost mage.

[Vargur]

some bosses we can. blackhand mythic, blast furnace, and beastlord.

Beastlord is questionable, perhaps mythic? Adds have low HP and die within seconds from other classes' huge broken burst DPS, thus making searsanity worth almost nothing.
Furnace is definitely doable though.

[Relapses]

Beastlord is questionable, perhaps mythic? Adds have low HP and die within seconds from other classes' huge broken burst DPS, thus making searsanity or halo worth almost nothing.

I prefer AS/Cascade on Beastlord. We don't shine AEing the little adds unless the rest of your group's AE sucks dick. (I'd go CoP in that situation, full pad.) We do, however, deal substantial damage to the spears (especially on Mythic). AS/Cascade and we're literally shitting Orbs and killing errything. It's fun and something Shadow does pretty well.

[Deleted]

demonbolt was perhaps the most braindead version of any warlock spec, but each to their own. the versatility of demo is great now, with goserv/dserv giving us good mobile dps with pets and proper use of procs with soulfire making you head and shoulders above other locks that don't maximise on RPPM/ring procs makes it a very interesting and different spec to most. not to mention you have choices to make now on all fights on whether you want the supreme aoe burst cata + 3x chaos wave combo or have good single target/good aoe burst with just 3 chaos waves (because now you dont just get 800 fury and spend them all on lolbolt)

anyway, yeah priest is strong. It wont and shouldn't be top every fight, but is good on darmac mythic and is very good on blackhand form what i've seen. also oregorger they're pretty epic. if you want to be topping every fight i'd stick with a pure dps class like warlock as all three specs should be made viable next patch in different situations, so they should be very high on each fight (if blizzard do their job right)

[Vargur]

I prefer AS/Cascade on Beastlord. We don't shine AEing the little adds unless the rest of your group's AE sucks dick. (I'd go CoP in that situation, full pad.) We do, however, deal substantial damage to the spears (especially on Mythic). AS/Cascade and we're literally shitting Orbs and killing errything. It's fun and something Shadow does pretty well.

Ah yeah, I always™ use Cascade there, not sure why I said halo.

- - - Updated - - -

demonbolt was perhaps the most braindead version of any warlock spec, but each to their own. the versatility of demo is great now, with goserv/dserv giving us good mobile dps with pets and proper use of procs with soulfire making you head and shoulders above other locks that don't maximise on RPPM/ring procs makes it a very interesting and different spec to most. not to mention you have choices to make now on all fights on whether you want the supreme aoe burst cata + 3x chaos wave combo or have good single target/good aoe burst with just 3 chaos waves (because now you dont just get 800 fury and spend them all on lolbolt)

Shadow thread in a priest section. Also, nerf chaos wave/cata.

[Deleted]

5orb weave it's a valid rotation, what the actual fuck are you talking about?

I think their talking about this part:

Dot weaving is a non-obvious way to play where you apply dots once you're at shadow orb cap, and then you can extend a plague/insanity/mind blast rotation for long enough for your dots to tick through without being removed by a mind spike.

I thought you started dots at 4 orbs, rather than the 5 cap?

[Comis]

I think spriest is definitely rewarding to play. Dotweaving is pretty difficult to master at first (even if most people here take that for granted after all this time), and managing dots/orbs on big add fights (iron maidens, blast furnace, beastlord, etc) is something I find really entertaining. You don't have many procs to manage or cooldowns (shadowfiend must be used but it's not very exciting), but if you like tracking multiple dots and using orbs wisely, spriest is very rewarding to play. Beastlord for example is hectic as hell and a total blast as spriest.

As for meters ... unless you're in a trash guild you will not be #1 on any fight unfortunately. And some fights (like Gruul) you will **probably** be last with equal gear/play.

[zenkai]

You can shine on any fight provided your guild dps is terrible enough :P

[Ariluz]

I think spriest is definitely rewarding to play. Dotweaving is pretty difficult to master at first (even if most people here take that for granted after all this time), and managing dots/orbs on big add fights (iron maidens, blast furnace, beastlord, etc) is something I find really entertaining. You don't have many procs to manage or cooldowns (shadowfiend must be used but it's not very exciting), but if you like tracking multiple dots and using orbs wisely, spriest is very rewarding to play. Beastlord for example is hectic as hell and a total blast as spriest.

As for meters ... unless you're in a trash guild you will not be #1 on any fight unfortunately. And some fights (like Gruul) you will **probably** be last with equal gear/play.

I think hesp has topped the meters quite a few times running with Midwinter. #3 guild world confirmed trash guild.

[Oneirophobia]

You'll find the class depressing, honestly. Expansions will go by and your class will stuff suffer from time-old, nearly tradition-forming problems.

A quick example of these are:

-Massively outdated and occasionally glitchy visuals (yay cardboard fog effects and mindflaying awkwardly out of one hand!)
-Identity crisis / muddled theme with no in-game lore explaining us or our magic or even acknowledging that shadow priests exist (Are we vampires? Are we old god users? Telepaths? Are we tapping into the void? The heck are shadow orbs? What IS shadow form? Are we worse than warlocks or what?!)
-Immensely clunky and poor AoE ability
-Constant insistence from devs that we have awful damage to compensate for our "amazing offspec heals!" potential, which as of WoD, doesn't exist (And yet our damage is still poop)
-The joys of being completely spell locked in PvP or forced to dispell your own dots
-Having to painfully choose another talent over dominate mind because you know you're only going to use it to throw people off the platform at WoD Shattrath's flight path
-Unbalanced talents that pigeon-hole you into cookie cutter builds (To hell with you, Insanity)

And on top of the previous bullet, awkward stat priorities fluctuating based on each talent. Now, yes, we know blizzard wants us to shift talents on a per-fight basis to maximize class potential, but when you also need to bring a whack of different secondary stats it becomes unfeasible and you're left stuck in the same cookie cutter talents as always. Hooray for having talent choices dependent on the presence of Reforge.

Example: Auspicious Spirit makes crit extremely valuable, almost outdoing haste.



That being said, I still play the class. I don't know why, but theres something about shadow priests I just like. I've tried over and over to switch classes, but I always seem to wander back to shadow, even though I'll never really be able to contribute like other classes.

[gerus]

Personal opinion(s):
* it seems like AS scales exceptionally well with crit and by the time you're mostly-fully geared from BRF you are in a solid place both on priority DPS and overall DPS. Before that, you are maintaining a raid slot on the priority DPS.
* AS is a rewarding playstyle because you are able to do significant damage to things that need to die while pumping out great DPS on a priority target. That niche can and should be highly sought after.
* CoP is the opposite of a rewarding playstyle. It's a mechanically intense rotation which rewards mediocre at best single target DPS. The last similarly mechanically intense DPS rotation I can think of is feral druids in WotLK and we were rewarded with insane-o DPS.

[Biomega]

* CoP is the opposite of a rewarding playstyle. It's a mechanically intense rotation which rewards mediocre at best single target DPS. The last similarly mechanically intense DPS rotation I can think of is feral druids in WotLK and we were rewarded with insane-o DPS.

This to me is the biggest gripe. There is a STAGGERING disconnect between effort and reward across classes. There is no reason for SPs to have to jump through so many hoops on several of their gameplay aspects. Why is Halo doing its bullshit too-far-too-close-just-right thing, just to STILL end up doing PITIFUL damage compared to other classes' fire-and-forget AoE spells (let alone ST)? Why is going through a delicately timed DoT-weaving rotation putting us BARELY at a level of mediocre and underused specs of other classes, while their simpler rotations in proper specs put them MILES ahead? Why are so many of our talents useless or severely underperforming in PvE (Insanity, ToF on 90% of fights? Divine Star, what are you even?). Why do we not have any cooldowns to pop, aside from Noodlefiend?