Can shadow priests top meters? is proper play rewarding?

[Comis]

I think hesp has topped the meters quite a few times running with Midwinter. #3 guild world confirmed trash guild.

Should have included qualifiers eh There are amazing players of every class, but *on average* there's not a fight currently where spriest are the clear winner. Most fights in fact, they average middle of the pack. That's what I meant.

[Regen]

I think hesp has topped the meters quite a few times running with Midwinter. #3 guild world confirmed trash guild.

He's topped a few mythic blackhand streams I've watched them do. Confirmed trash guild.

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Should have included qualifiers eh There are amazing players of every class, but *on average* there's not a fight currently where spriest are the clear winner. Most fights in fact, they average middle of the pack. That's what I meant.

Yeah he's an amazing player of his class, like you say, but it's not like he's surrounded by bad or mediocre players of other classes... They have some of the best players in the world (read: world 3rd guild) so that logic doesn't carry a whole lot of weight.

[l33t]

Yeah he's an amazing player of his class, like you say, but it's not like he's surrounded by bad or mediocre players of other classes... They have some of the best players in the world (read: world 3rd guild) so that logic doesn't carry a whole lot of weight.

Ye you know, sometimes Universe just loves you and you don't get all the boss shits to run away from, instead you're allowed to stand still for the whole fight and deal massive damage, while your spells get lots of crits and multistrikes*.

OT: yes, on blast furnace and beastlord we are allowed to top meters*. And that's possibly all. You possibly should spec Disc for the rest of the fights, it would be better for your raid overall.

To be honest, I feel Shadowpriests now are even at worse shape than they were in MoP. In MoP we at least could be useful with our offhealing powers. Now, we deal shitty damage on 8 out of 10 boss fights, our mechanics mostly are broken, shadowform is useless, mobility is nonexistant, offhealing is nonexistant, utility is near to useless, and talents are unbalanced as fuck. Good job Blizzard. All hail World of HunterMage craft.

* Sometimes

[buffalowbie]

Yeah he's an amazing player of his class, like you say, but it's not like he's surrounded by bad or mediocre players of other classes... They have some of the best players in the world (read: world 3rd guild) so that logic doesn't carry a whole lot of weight.

The thing is, unlike hunters, locks, mages, blah blah blah, we don't have a fight that is our fight to shine on (maaaaaaybe blackhand-but you wouldn't stack shadow on it). At least in SoO we had one. Whereas huntars/locks are pretty much good at *every* fight, which is exactly what blizzard said they wanted to avoid.

Shadow isn't in a bad spot, but it's not in a good spot. We were in a good spot at the start of the xpac, but then blizzard came and buffed every other class but ours, so we fell behind.

Locks and hunters bitched their way to the top of the DPS meters. They whined and whined and whined until Blizzard caved in and buffed the shit out of them.

That aside. I don't look at dps charts to be like "oh, that player is at the top, they must be an AMAZING player" BULL.SHIT. They are probably padding their way to the top (I know the hunters and lock in my guild constantly pad to out dps each other, even if it will cost us a wipe, just so they can say in mumble "hahahhahaa, I'm better than you" and a round of congratulations amongst themselves. When I topped the meters on Blackhand it was "where the fuck did you pull that dps out of?" and zero congrats-not that I care).

I feel a better way to gauge how you fit in with a group (skill wise) is to look at the percentile ranking. Yes, people will pad there to get better ranks, but it does somewhat remove the idiotic inability of Blizzard to properly balance the classes. So like...if your huntard is ranking 60% while topping the DPS charts, but you are doing 85% while in the middle...well, I guess it's fairly clear who the better player is.

[Java]

I find CoP to be about the most worst DPS method I have ever tried. It plays like you are drumming to a really bad beat, any mistake and the song is ruined. I would never suggest anyone go shadow.

[zenkai]

EDIT sorry posted in wrong window, shouldnt have multiple windows open I guess lol

[Dierdre]

I find CoP to be about the most worst DPS method I have ever tried. It plays like you are drumming to a really bad beat, any mistake and the song is ruined. I would never suggest anyone go shadow.

You need to get a better metronome or have JK Simmons coach you. It's not that hard to keep the beat, and even if you do screw up it's not that hard to recover if you understand how and why dotweaving works.

[Biomega]

DoT-Weaving isn't too bad. The problem I find with it is more that it is not appropriately rewarding. I am all for intricate rotations with a high skill ceiling - mastering that is fun for me. But it should come with a reward for all the work. I cringe every time I hop on an alt and realize how much easier it is for other classes (not all of them, but enough) to do their rotation, only to end up doing more damage than my SPriest. That is something that can be very frustrating

Also, have I mentioned lately how badly designed the whole Halo mechanic is? No? Well, then!

[Juicebox]

Mages and locks will pretty much always top, but Shadow is in a good spot right now atleast.

[Relapses]

Also, have I mentioned lately how badly designed the whole Halo mechanic is? No? Well, then!

Luckily for you, with the recent MS change Cascade is better on nearly every encounter in BRF.

[Deleted]

As usual, people that think they know what to look for in warcraft logs but actually have no fucking clue.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

This is an example of a fight Spriest that can pull off great numbers and not just be padding adds. While some padding is done, my damage on this fight was on average, 50% higher than anyone else on each of the important adds and the boss itself while also maintaining very high damage on spears which need to die eventually anyway.

What does a lock or fire mage contribute on a fight like that where their ST damage on the adds that matter is almost useless compared to a Spriest?

My point is that Spriest damage is almost always valuable and where fights become the most problematic (last 20%) usually, Spriests dominate nearly every other spec. An example is Blackhand mythic or even heroic, they suck until p2 where they can shine and perform significantly better than most other specs during p3. Other specs carry shadow in the first phase, shadow carries the other specs in the following phases.

That and the important utility that they bring, high survivability, soaking CDs, MC, life grip and most importantly, glyphed VE make them one of the best specs you can bring to a raid. Simcraft doesn't mean crap for Spriests, warcraft logs dont mean crap if you don't understand how the spec works or even how to read logs correctly.

Performance is fine, AS is fine although RNG can be a bit cruel at times but CoP is cancerous to play on some the mythic BRF fights. Try playing CoP on H&F mythic compared to AS. At least there's the flexibility in the talent choices but its very reliant on crit gear.

[Luis Oscar]

As usual, people that think they know what to look for in warcraft logs but actually have no fucking clue.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

This is an example of a fight Spriest that can pull off great numbers and not just be padding adds. While some padding is done, my damage on this fight was on average, 50% higher than anyone else on each of the important adds and the boss itself while also maintaining very high damage on spears which need to die eventually anyway.

What does a lock or fire mage contribute on a fight like that where their ST damage on the adds that matter is almost useless compared to a Spriest?

My point is that Spriest damage is almost always valuable and where fights become the most problematic (last 20%) usually, Spriests dominate nearly every other spec. An example is Blackhand mythic or even heroic, they suck until p2 where they can shine and perform significantly better than most other specs during p3. Other specs carry shadow in the first phase, shadow carries the other specs in the following phases.

That and the important utility that they bring, high survivability, soaking CDs, MC, life grip and most importantly, glyphed VE make them one of the best specs you can bring to a raid. Simcraft doesn't mean crap for Spriests, warcraft logs dont mean crap if you don't understand how the spec works or even how to read logs correctly.

Performance is fine, AS is fine although RNG can be a bit cruel at times but CoP is cancerous to play on some the mythic BRF fights. Try playing CoP on H&F mythic compared to AS. At least there's the flexibility in the talent choices but its very reliant on crit gear.

I see what you mean, shadow priest seems pretty appealing, just wish it were more noticeable the benefit of playing it properly.

Then again i was thinking, due to how AS is designed, isn't shadow priest just gonna get better and better? since they will have more and more crit, similar to fire mages that sucked at the beginning of Highmaul but are now starting to dominate?

[l33t]

As usual, people that think they know what to look for in warcraft logs but actually have no fucking clue.

Ye sure, now look at your own log from Gruul or Thogar and try to say again to us how cool shadowpriests actually are.

[Biomega]

Yes, Shadow has its niche(s). That doesn't change the fact that we still need to do more work for less of a reward, compared to many other classes. Those classes are almost universally good (mages, hunters, locks to an extent), with their respective niches just being icing on the cake. For us, if we can't make use of our niche (i.e. multi-target DoT AS) we just don't do very well; whereas mages, hunters, etc. always do well, and simply do GREAT in fights that favor them.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

I think their talking about this part:



I thought you started dots at 4 orbs, rather than the 5 cap?

If you don't have 2-set t17, you can start on 4 or 5 orbs, if you have 2-set, you start on 3 or 4 (as starting on 5 with the 2set wouldn't benefit from the MB CDR).

For us, if we can't make use of our niche (i.e. multi-target DoT AS) we just don't do very well; whereas mages, hunters, etc. always do well, and simply do GREAT in fights that favor them.

Hunters and Mages are the current FotM classes for a reason...

I see what you mean, shadow priest seems pretty appealing, just wish it were more noticeable the benefit of playing it properly.

Then again i was thinking, due to how AS is designed, isn't shadow priest just gonna get better and better? since they will have more and more crit, similar to fire mages that sucked at the beginning of Highmaul but are now starting to dominate?

The current version of Shadow is quite unforgiving towards mistakes, especially AS multidotting with 4set. MoP Shadow was all about MFI uptime, while WoD is back to a more traditional SP playstyle focusing on DoT and buff uptimes if playing AS, or proper MFI clipping if playing CoP.

About AS scaling, yeah it's similair to Fire Mages and Fury Warrs, but both of those specs also have a Mastery that scales just as well as Crit, where as our Mastery is totally useless for AS (although we scale better with Haste).

[nikolbolas]

I find CoP to be about the most worst DPS method I have ever tried. It plays like you are drumming to a really bad beat, any mistake and the song is ruined. I would never suggest anyone go shadow.

How can you say this about the most interesting talent/Spec shadow has had for a while? I understand it's your opinion and everybody has the right to it, but when you state you would not "suggest" anyone to go shadow, you create the opportunity for people to misjudge the spec based on the fact that you do not how to play it.

[Biomega]

I sort of agree. CoP is not easy to play, but that can be fun. Having one-button specs gets boring fast. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that you're not really getting too much for the complexity, and that can seriously annoy people.

[Deleted]

Ye sure, now look at your own log from Gruul or Thogar and try to say again to us how cool shadowpriests actually are.

2 fights where we perform average to subpar is not indicative of overall performance of a class or spec. Also, you completely missed the original point of my post anyway. Half the specs on a fight like thogar get ranks because of their AoE on the useless trash that spawns every now and then, not on the adds that matter like the man-at-arms and even the boss.

Have you seen some other specs and how poorly they have it? Enhancement shamans are good on maybe 3-4 fights and only because their AoE damage is absurdly strong. Their actual boss and high-priority target damage is very low which gives the illusion that the spec is strong but their not.

I was also playing CoP on that fight which is fine for progression but not too good at achieving high ranks.

[buffalowbie]

I sort of agree. CoP is not easy to play, but that can be fun. Having one-button specs gets boring fast. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that you're not really getting too much for the complexity, and that can seriously annoy people.

I think the main problem with CoP (and shadow in general) that people have isn't that it gets boring, it's that other specs (mage, lock, hunter) do far more DPS for the same amount of 'effort'.

It's not hard to play a lock. i have a geared lock alt that I screw around with, barely know (or care to know) the rotation, and in 5 buttons, and much lower gear, I can match my spriest dps.

That shouldn't happen. A nitwit lock player (which I consider myself, since I don't know, and don't care to know the nuances of the lock class-until I am forced to main it) should not be out DPSing any other class. Ever. Regardless of gear. That applies to all classes, not just locks, and regardless of the complexity of the class.

It irritates the shit out of me that I can be doing the correct thing 99% of the time, but be in losing to the easy classes that have long stopped paying attention to the boss and are fucking around and getting themselves killed in dumbass padding competitions between themselves.

I love playing Shadow, but just like in MoP, skilled shadow players don't stand out, when their guild is full of FOTMs. Because for some stupid reason people still think that DPS = skill.

[l33t]

2 fights where we perform average to subpar is not indicative of overall performance of a class or spec. Also, you completely missed the original point of my post anyway. Half the specs on a fight like thogar get ranks because of their AoE on the useless trash that spawns every now and then, not on the adds that matter like the man-at-arms and even the boss.

Have you seen some other specs and how poorly they have it? Enhancement shamans are good on maybe 3-4 fights and only because their AoE damage is absurdly strong. Their actual boss and high-priority target damage is very low which gives the illusion that the spec is strong but their not.

I was also playing CoP on that fight which is fine for progression but not too good at achieving high ranks.

Well, it works both ways, doesn't it? One fight out of ten where we perform good is not indicative either.

Fact is, no matter what you do as a shadowpriest nowadays, mage or lock will outperform you. Second fact is, there is absolutely zero reasons to take shadowpriest over mage or lock, unless your guild needs you to spec disc on some fights where they need extra healer; and even in that scenario, it is highly possible that it is better to get boomkin/resto to fit in that position (it is absolutely better gearing-wise at least). We were good during Highmaul, we absolutely are not in good position now, sadly. And I wonder why people are so stubborn to refuse obvious things.

Oh, and yes, adds matter the same as any other boss ability during raid encounter. You won't call a spec/class good when/if that spec is not able to execute boss mechanics properly, will you?