Sea Witch, could it work for next hero class?

[Deleted]

2. DKs and Monks both heavily fit the flavor/lore of their expansion, Demon Hunter and Tinker, or what have you, do not have much to do with the Naga or the South Seas

Disagree here. I would say Tinker suits a South Seas xpac well, as much so as an undermine xpac. Any South Seas xpac is going to feature the goblin cartels heavily- it would be a steampunk-pirate xpac. Naga can also be very tech-themed, remember their giant steam powered water works facility in Zangarmarsh. A South Seas xpac would also involve iron clad steamboats, zeppelins, submarines, etc.

In my opinion, a maritime-only or tech-only xpac would be a flat, mixing the two enhances both and meshes well. This concept also works for an Undermine xpac (gnomeregan, drills, dark iron tech, etc), and perhaps also a legion xpac (fel engineering, magitech, ethereal void science, etc). Emerald Dream, not so much.

[Thimagryn]

Which makes sense in a martial arts thematic.

And Pirates, undersea Old Gods and the lingering Arcane Magic from the Maelstrom all have connections to one thing - the Sea. Thus the potential for a Sea Witch or Sea Lord in a South Seas-based expansion. They bring the powers of the Sea with them, the same way a Monk can use the Mists to heal even when away from Pandaria. It's not much of a stretch when you really think about how any class works when out of their environment. Even Druids in Warcraft 3 required trees around to cast Force of Nature. It wasn't a problem at all in WoW.

[Teriz]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Lady_Vashj_(tactics) - has Entagle (earth-based), adds have poison- and shadow/mind-based abilities
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Nar%27jira - has Soul Devour and Soul Strike
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Zar%27jira - Earthquake in WC3, also many soul-based abilities in Cataclysm

So there's no nature-based class in the game that can perform Entangle? There's no class in the game that can perform Earthquake? There's no class with "Shadow/mind-based" abilities, or abilities that attack the soul?

Okay so there's 1 example of a Sea Witch that uses Shadow magic. That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of their spells are simply Shaman/Mage abilities, or that the WC3 hero's abilities/themes are divided among the existing classes.

It really is though. Now let's go back to some points that've been made:

I'm not going to respond to all of that, but all of that is wrong. I never said that abilities haven't changed names, or that certain skills can't be shared by other classes. What I said was that there's never been a time when there was an existing WoW ability that was removed and placed into another class.

You list stuff like Sunfire vs Flame Shock. First off Sunfire is nothing like Flameshock or vice versa.

Sunfire doesn't do fire damage, and it doesn't have a cooldown. You must assume that since it has "fire" in its name and that it's a DoT it's the same ability as Flame Shock? Nonsense.

Additionally, Druids still have Sunfire, and Shaman still have Flame Shock. So wth are you even talking about?

Nearly all of those comparisons were exactly like that. You brought up Nature Swiftness. Both Shaman and Druids had NS at one point, but in order to make them different, Blizzard simply renamed the Shaman version. Both classes still have these abilities.

Again, Mana Shield will always be a Mage ability, even if its not currently in the Mage spellbook. However, the lack of Mana Shield is the least of the problems of this class concept. At least the concept as proposed by Thimagryn.

Anyway, I've given my viewpoint. Feel free to have the last word.

[Thirteen]

So there's no nature-based class in the game that can perform Entangle? There's no class in the game that can perform Earthquake? There's no class with "Shadow/mind-based" abilities, or abilities that attack the soul?

There are frost mages and frost DKs. Fire mages and destruction warlocks. Shadow priests and demonology warlocks. Holy priests and holy paladins. Just because more than one class can practice the same school of magic doesn't mean they can't master different disciplines within it.

Okay so there's 1 example of a Sea Witch that uses Shadow magic. That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of their spells are simply Shaman/Mage abilities, or that the WC3 hero's abilities/themes are divided among the existing classes.

The majority of their spells? Based on what? The three spells that 2/3 of the ingame sea witches have?

I'm not going to respond to all of that, but all of that is wrong. I never said that abilities haven't changed names, or that certain skills can't be shared by other classes.

You can't just say "Oh, that's obviously wrong, so I won't bother". Why is it wrong?

What I said was that there's never been a time when there was an existing WoW ability that was removed and placed into another class.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

Nearly all of those comparisons were exactly like that. You brought up Nature Swiftness. Both Shaman and Druids had NS at one point, but in order to make them different, Blizzard simply renamed the Shaman version. Both classes still have these abilities.

Oh. So it's okay for someone else to have Mana Shield as long as mages have it too?

Again, Mana Shield will always be a Mage ability, even if its not currently in the Mage spellbook. However, the lack of Mana Shield is the least of the problems of this class concept. At least the concept as proposed by Thimagryn.

Mana Shield never was and never will be a "mage" ability. It's an arcane ability that was briefly used by mages. WoW mages aren't the first to use it, nor did they use it the longest.

Anyway, I've given my viewpoint. Feel free to have the last word.

I like your take on "haha, I'll take the high road". Fact of the matter is you're hating on a unique concept just for the sake of doing it. Even you know your arguments are wrong, which is why you're avoiding certain points people have made.

[Teriz]

Shamans lost Rebirth, and it was given to druids.

In beta.

- - - Updated - - -

Mana Shield never was and never will be a "mage" ability. It's an arcane ability that was briefly used by mages. WoW mages aren't the first to use it, nor did they use it the longest.

Mages had Mana Shield for 8 years. I'd hardly consider that "brief" in terms of WoW's life span.

[Thirteen]

In beta.

It was Patch 1.1, not the beta. [x]

Mages had Mana Shield for 8 years. I'd hardly consider that "brief" in terms of WoW's life span.

In WoW's lifespan? No, it's not. But it is in the bigger picture (TFT + lore time gap until WoW). Not to mention it's not even the same spell that was used by Sea Witches. The Sea Witch version if much closer to the one Deathwhisper uses - toggle to drain mana instead of HP, as long as you have mana, rather than toggle to drain mana instead of HP for X HP or Y seconds, whichever comes first.

[Ielenia]

Which is irrelevant, since that was the version of Ox Statue when SCT was removed.

It's not irrelevant. It's not irrelevant because an ability migration does not need to happen in one single patch. You're only claiming it's irrelevant because it's a fact against your case.

[frogger237]

Gotta love Teriz, completely shits on everyone else's class ideas then jumps through hoops to explain away any comments anyone has with his 5000 class ideas.


I think its an interesting class idea although I would prefer it as a naga only class.

[Teriz]

It was Patch 1.1, not the beta. [x]

Look at the release date of that patch. WoW didn't release until November 23, 2004.

In WoW's lifespan? No, it's not.

So a spell that existed for 8 out of 10 years isn't considered a long time? Okay.

But it is in the bigger picture (TFT + lore time gap until WoW). Not to mention it's not even the same spell that was used by Sea Witches. The Sea Witch version if much closer to the one Deathwhisper uses - toggle to drain mana instead of HP, as long as you have mana, rather than toggle to drain mana instead of HP for X HP or Y seconds, whichever comes first.

Mage Mana Shield:

Absorbs X damage, draining mana instead. Drains 1 mana per damage absorbed. Lasts 60 sec.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Mana_Shield

Sea Witch Mana Shield:

Creates a shield that absorbs damage by using the Sea Witch's mana. Blocks 100% of incoming damage

http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutr...seawitch.shtml

Am I missing something?

[DarkspearNeverDie]

Anyway, I've given my viewpoint. Feel free to have the last word.

You have echoed your viewpoint, repeatedly. Here's just 3 examples out of many.

This terrible concept pops up over and over again

But hey, whatever man. If you think that makes an ounce of sense, more power to you.

In other words, bury this horrible concept.

You then show us how delusional you are, thinking other people's class concepts are competing against yours.

Lore is never static, but the lore and the class theme has to make sense. But again, you seem to think that mix works, so whatever. We'll find out which one of us is right soon enough.

And finally; after all your snarky retorts and condescension - you have the audacity to link your OWN concepts to re-direct views there.

No argument regarding Demon Hunters and Dark Rangers. However with Tinkers, I created a class concept based heavily on the WC3 Tinker, and the people who read it voted overwhelmingly that is was different than hunters and engineering;

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ss-Idea-(Long)

Must you be such a douche-bag?



OT: Check out all these abilities that could be used for the Sea Witch. Physical damage like with its bow, and then arcane damage with water/frost attacks.

Spoiler: 

High Warlord Naj'entus' abilities:

Impaling Spine - Stun

-XX yd range
-Instant
-Fires a massive spine, impaling the target, causing the target to bleed X damage over Y time.


Needle Spine- Conal close-range AoE

-X yd range
-Instant
-Does X physical damage to three random targets in a cone shape and an additional Y frost damage to anyone within six yards of the targets.

Tidal Shield - Defensive CD/HP regeneration (Very similar to Mana Bubble)

-Instant
-Protects the caster from most attacks and spells. In addition, the caster regenerates health.


Wise Mari's abilities:

Water Bubble - Defensive CD (Also similar to Mana Bubble)

-Instant
-Create a large water bubble around yourself, becoming immune to X amount of damage and knocking back players that touch the bubble.

Bubble Burst - AoE damage and CC

-X sec cast
-Bursts the protective bubble, inflicting X Frost damage and knocking back all enemies within 10 yards.

Hydrolance - Could be a channeled AoE ability

4 sec cast
Order the waters to rise, creating a torrent of water that moves in a straight line.

[Teriz]

It's not irrelevant. It's not irrelevant because an ability migration does not need to happen in one single patch. You're only claiming it's irrelevant because it's a fact against your case.

Don't you mean an entire expansion? Since that was the version of Ox Statue that lasted the entire expansion.

Now,please describe what these two abilities had in common.

Here's their tooltips again:

Ox Statue (MoP)

Summons a Black Ox Statue at the target location. Lasts for 15 min. Only one Black Ox Statue can be summoned at any one time.

The Black Ox Statue interacts with your Provoke and Leer of the Ox abilities.

Sanctuary of the Ox (Passive)
Everytime the Monk deals X damage, the Black Ox statue will cast Guard on an injured party or raid member within 40 yards absorbing Y damage lasting 30 sec. This effect cannot be cast onto the Monk.

SCT (Cataclysm)

Summons a Stoneclaw Totem with X health at the feet of the caster for 15 sec that taunts creatures within 8 yards to attack it. Enemies attacking the Stoneclaw Totem have a 50% chance to be stunned for 3 sec. Stoneclaw totem also protects all your totems, causing them to absorb Y damage.

- - - Updated - - -

You have echoed your viewpoint, repeatedly. Here's just 3 examples out of many.






You then show us how delusional you are, thinking other people's class concepts are competing against yours.




And finally; after all your snarky retorts and condescension - you have the audacity to link your OWN concepts to re-direct views there.



Must you be such a douche-bag?



OT: Check out all these abilities that could be used for the Sea Witch. Physical damage like with its bow, and then arcane damage with water/frost attacks.

Spoiler: 

High Warlord Naj'entus' abilities:

Impaling Spine - Stun

-XX yd range
-Instant
-Fires a massive spine, impaling the target, causing the target to bleed X damage over Y time.


Needle Spine- Conal close-range AoE

-X yd range
-Instant
-Does X physical damage to three random targets in a cone shape and an additional Y frost damage to anyone within six yards of the targets.

Tidal Shield - Defensive CD/HP regeneration (Very similar to Mana Bubble)

-Instant
-Protects the caster from most attacks and spells. In addition, the caster regenerates health.


Wise Mari's abilities:

Water Bubble - Defensive CD (Also similar to Mana Bubble)

-Instant
-Create a large water bubble around yourself, becoming immune to X amount of damage and knocking back players that touch the bubble.

Bubble Burst - AoE damage and CC

-X sec cast
-Bursts the protective bubble, inflicting X Frost damage and knocking back all enemies within 10 yards.

Hydrolance - Could be a channeled AoE ability

4 sec cast
Order the waters to rise, creating a torrent of water that moves in a straight line.

Perhaps you utilize your creativity and create a write up? I'd be very curious to see what specializations or spells could be contrived from this concept.

[Ielenia]

Look at the release date of that patch. WoW didn't release until November 23, 2004.

And, once again, it doesn't matter if it was beta or not, it is still an example of ability migration. You don't get to arbitrarily disqualify it just because it disproves your arguments.

[Ielenia]

Don't you mean an entire expansion? Since that was the version of Ox Statue that lasted the entire expansion.

Again: it does not matter. You're making up arbitrary rules to disqualify the real cases of ability migration. It doesn't matter that a removed ability was given to another class in the same patch, two patches later, an expansion later, or two hundred expansions later. Time between removal and migration does not matter. And you failed so far to explain why it should matter, other than because it disproves your arguments.

[Wildtree]

An underwater class as mail wearer.......... yeah that makes sense... like none whatsoever...

[Thirteen]

Look at the release date of that patch. WoW didn't release until November 23, 2004.

I mean you're legitimately just saying "Oh that doesn't count because reasons. Try again." Eventually you're just gonna limit me to "Pick a spell with the letter "Q" in the name, an icon that is either chartreuse or bordeaux, that is available to blood elves and humans, has a cast time in the [0.1-0.6s)U(5-10s] interval and was used by a major lore character during the long vigil."

So a spell that existed for 8 out of 10 years isn't considered a long time? Okay.

It's not brief in WoW's lifespan, but it is brief if you consider that it was used during the events of TFT by Lady Vashj, and during the events of TBC by her (or some variant of it), as well as likely in between.

Am I missing something?

"Absorbs 100 damage at the cost of 100 mana in the next 10 seconds" is somewhat different from "Absorbs all damage at the cost of your mana for half the price until your mana runs out". But you claim that Lacerate, Corpse Explosion and Pulverize are the same, so yknow.

Also, regarding Stoneclaw Totem/Ox statue: the TBC Stoneclaw Totem is-

Summons a Stoneclaw Totem with 50 health at the feet of the caster for 15 sec that taunts creatures within 8 yards to attack it. Enemies attacking the Stoneclaw Totem have a 101% [sic] chance to be stunned for 3 sec.

-which is essentially Ox Statue

[fixx]

I mean you're legitimately just saying "Oh that doesn't count because reasons. Try again." Eventually you're just gonna limit me to "Pick a spell with the letter "Q" in the name, an icon that is either chartreuse or bordeaux, that is available to blood elves and humans, has a cast time in the [0.1-0.6s)U(5-10s] interval and was used by a major lore character during the long vigil."

"Absorbs 100 damage at the cost of 100 mana in the next 10 seconds" is somewhat different from "Absorbs all damage at the cost of your mana for half the price until your mana runs out". But you claim that Lacerate, Corpse Explosion and Pulverize are the same, so yknow.

That's his modus operandi when it comes to tinker threads. It drives people crazy with intentional logic fallacies but is too subtle trolling for moderators to hand out infractions.

[Hawthorne Wipes]

An underwater class as mail wearer.......... yeah that makes sense... like none whatsoever...

So Naga Myrmidon are wearing lingerie..
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20091129174337

[Lumineus]

I don't know why that keeps getting brought up. Durr mail is heavy guyz!

Never mind that large fish/murlocs, aquatic reptiles, sea serpents, the Naga themselves are all literally made of mail armor... the key word in "scale mail" is "scale," people.

[Thirteen]

I don't know why that keeps getting brought up. Durr mail is heavy guyz!

For real. That's the confusing part? We're talking in a world where people literally defy the laws of gravity (priests, mages, warlocks) on a daily basis. I mean, if nothing else, consider that plate wearers don't fall faster than cloth wearers. You can't apply real life logic in these situations.

[Musta]

Im sorry, but my guess is Demon Hunter =/