Is there any skill-wise difficult MMO out there?

[Lord Set]

First, let me explain my view on the skill-wise difficulty:

Demand of: fast reactions and ability to use the right thing at the right time; plenty of hand/eye coordination; multi-tasking.

For example: DMC3 on Dante Must Die is very difficult skill-wise. Chess is very difficult strategy-wise (at least, against a worthy opponent), however it is not difficult skill-wise.

[Vargur]

Fleet Commanding a large force in EVE Online.

[Deleted]

First, let me explain my view on the skill-wise difficulty:

Demand of: fast reactions and ability to use the right thing at the right time; plenty of hand/eye coordination; multi-tasking.

For example: DMC3 on Dante Must Die is very difficult skill-wise. Chess is very difficult strategy-wise (at least, against a worthy opponent), however it is not difficult skill-wise.

Sounds like what you are looking for is a shooter. There are plenty. CS, CoD and Battlefield springs to mind where Battlefield has a little more emphasis on strategi.

In general mmorpg's tend to have a mix of strategi and "skill" as you call it. Thats because most people find a bit of both interesting.

Your problem seem to be that you are slightly in the extreme part here. And in that part you wont find many people. That makes it hard to build an mmo around it.

[stellvia]

Something like TERA might be up your alley. The action combat does require a lot of positional considerations, proper timing on attacks, etc. for most classes. I enjoyed tanking on my Lancer a lot for that reason.

[Darksoldierr]

I second TERA. Though, other than the action gameplay, everything is very very generic

[Deleted]

Starcraft 2!

[D3athsting]

Tera, using a warrior without the chain skill button is quite difficult with a lot of skills that need to be used in a fast sequence

[Draahl]

Only game ive played that comes even close to difficult is Wildstar raiding. Thought Tera was a cakewalk tbh in comparison

[vep]

Osu!, Bloodborne, CS:GO, Touhou, Ikaruga, They Bleed Pixels, Wings of Vi, Ultra Street Fighter IV, Dark Souls I/II, maybe that brings something to your mind to play.

I'm pretty sure those aren't MMOs though.

On topic: Not sure it fits your description of skill but EVE Online surely is an MMO with the most depth and complexity out of all other MMOs. You can learn the basics rather fast, a few months. But to be a master at all the aspects of EVE probably won't happen. That being said, playing EVE as an individual might not be as complex but you can always join a corporation and an alliance, start moving up in ranks and start fleet commanding dozens, if not hundreds or thousands of other players.

But yeah, what you're describing is basically shooters. Or RTS like StarCraft.

[Deleted]

Raiding in Wildstar is pretty difficult. Too bad the rest of the game is shitty, boring and grindy.

[Deleted]

If you're looking for solid skill-based PvP I'd definitely say give Aion a go. It's still a "gen-2" MMO but is much faster paced, deep and well balanced than most other MMOs. It's slightly old now but the game is still absolutely beautiful and a lot of the crap Gameforge tried to do to it in the EU post-F2P has been reversed due to player outcry and it runs a very fair play model without any P2W elements. The PvE side of things in Aion either falls into "moderately difficult" or "literally impossible" (as in literally no-one ever kills some of the bosses they release because they're just stupid) and isn't as fleshed out as the PvP stuff but it's still quite enjoyable.

Also worth noting if RvR is your thing I've never had more enjoyment from any other game incorporating RvR elements than their siege system.

[Ryme]

Wildstar, though nothing will beat the difficulty in trying to reach max level.

[Senka]

Getting MMO and "very skill based" is a thing that doesn't really exist at the moment.

Yeah, the problem is that internet connections in general have only gotten good enough for skill-based gameplay relatively recently. MMO design, or MMORPG design more specifically, is what it is by tradition because back around 2001 or so, internet connections in general could really only support point-and-click, slow (compared to now) gameplay. Plus as a newer genre, devs were just playing it safe to see what they could get away with and still make people have enough fun to pay to play. The idea of a game like TERA or Wildstar where what you visually see is what actually happens (as opposed to animations for attacks that hit you regardless like WoW) was unrealistic outside of FPSes, and even those lagged half the time.

Now with internet connections generally getting better worldwide, we're seeing the same extreme rise and saturation of the MOBA genre that we saw with the MMORPG genre around 2004 and pretty much for the same reasons in my opinion. It'll be a while before anyone, IF anyone, makes a "skill-based" (by your definition) MMORPG. TERA was supposed to be it, but I can't deny the things Nabs said against it even if I do like TERA a lot.

[Deleted]

Wildstar, though nothing will beat the difficulty in trying to reach max level.

Eh? Been a while since I played Wildstar but I remember 1-50 being really really fast and haven't they done a bunch of XP boosts recently?

[OrcsRLame]

If your benchmark is DMC 3 on DMD! mode then the short answer is no. No mmo exists that will be what you're looking for. The closest would be world first mythic raiding in wow. If you eat DMD! for breakfast, then the skill aspect of world first raiding will be a breeze for you. Now you just need ~8 max level characters with a 690 something ilvl and perfect knowledge of everything else that goes into mythic raiding and you'll be ready to join Method!

[zealo]

There is nothing outside of perhaps mythic raiding that matches DMC3 on DMD, id recommend ladder play in SC2 if its game that needs timing, strategy and heavy mechanical skill you are looking for.

[barackopala]

If you want a really high cap skill based game then try broodwar or sc2.

[mickybrighteyes]

First, let me explain my view on the skill-wise difficulty:

Demand of: fast reactions and ability to use the right thing at the right time; plenty of hand/eye coordination; multi-tasking.

For example: DMC3 on Dante Must Die is very difficult skill-wise. Chess is very difficult strategy-wise (at least, against a worthy opponent), however it is not difficult skill-wise.

so strategy isn't a skill...

[Varabently]

First, let me explain my view on the skill-wise difficulty:

Demand of: fast reactions and ability to use the right thing at the right time; plenty of hand/eye coordination; multi-tasking.

For example: DMC3 on Dante Must Die is very difficult skill-wise. Chess is very difficult strategy-wise (at least, against a worthy opponent), however it is not difficult skill-wise.

I'm afraid I don't understand your distinction between strategy and skill. Difficulty is obviously in the eye of the beholder, but knowing the strategies in and out does improve your reaction time. If you have to think about what you're doing and it's difficult to make the decisions quickly, how is that different from the "skill" you mention first?

I guess maybe you just want a game that's physically difficult? You talk about reaction times and hand/eye coordination, so maybe that's what you mean. You may want to play a real sport like basketball or soccer or something if you want difficulty like that. All MMOs have a GCD (I assume), and your reaction time is always going to be less than the GCD (I mean most people's reaction time is a quarter of a second), so unless you're taking 3 seconds to decide what ability to use next or where to move, none of them will be THAT difficult, physically.

[Ryme]

Eh? Been a while since I played Wildstar but I remember 1-50 being really really fast and haven't they done a bunch of XP boosts recently?

Your mileage may vary.