Who would win Muradin Bronzebeard vs Chen Stormstout

[Keile]

Perhaps, hard to tell. All that does is say that they are both well traveled.

What advantage does Muradin have over Chen? Because Chen has numerous over Muradin.

His epic beard!

[Deleted]

A draw, settled with a beer quaffing competition but they both pass out after the last tankard.

[Deadite]

Perhaps, hard to tell. All that does is say that they are both well traveled.

What advantage does Muradin have over Chen? Because Chen has numerous over Muradin.

A gun..

'Muradin begins a battle by activating his stoneskin ability and grabbing his long rifle, blasting away at the most powerful opponent he can see. When the enemy closes to within range of his hammer, he attempts to stun opponents with his Storm Bolt feat before charging into melee, activating his stone flesh ability at the same time. Against a single opponent, or when fighting alongside powerful allies, he uses his Bash feat to keep foes out of the action'

He also taugh the Arthas how to fight. While on the verge of death he slew a massive Jormungar with one blow and became the King of the Frostborne Dwarfs. He has far more martial experience than Chen. He has the tools and the talent. That main thing that he has in his favour is he is not a stupid Panda! *snigger*

[Mellrod]

Muradin because Dwarves have hundreds or thousands of years of experience in warfare while pandaren sit around all day doing nothing. His fight moves in the intro cinematic are against two tired, hungry, wounded and poorly armed warriors. Pandaren are also fat as hell which suggests horrible cardiovascular endurance over extensive periods,while Dwarves are muscular and fit and extremely resilient even while wearing full armor.

And judging by their inability to defend their own lands from evils they keep boasting they're supposed to be experts at fighting, their training is theatrical and defensive at best. Pit that against a heavy mace and an axe capable of spilling your guts and I think the answer is self-evident.

I can't think of a single pandaren who all throughout the expansion has shown any true ability at being a capable melee warrior with the ability to kill. Even that assassin chick strikes from the shadows.

I don't think you've been paying much attention to MoP's lore. Pandaren have also been trained in combat for centuries, and have fought off several terrible foes, such as when they liberated their race from the Mogu, one of the strongest and most formiddable races on Pandaria, they are able to defend their entire continent from thousands of Mantid every few years, when their army is only consists of a few hundred or so men and women. Pandaren are generally plump, yes, but the Shado-Pan undergo intense, and most of the time, lethal training that is unlike any other faction's, the Trials of the Red Blossom are a good example.

The Pandaren must also fight against the Sha and learn never to let their emotions overcome them, or else it could kill them. They are able to fight without feeling fear, arrogance, sadness, etc, which is something that most other races, including Dwarves probably cannot do without the same training as the Pandaren. The Dwarves may have had thousands of years worth of combat experience, but i'd say that the Pandaren living in such a hostile environment and managing to fend everything off with nothing more than a small number of highly trained men and women speaks much more for the Pandaren.

As for taking warriors head on, there are many monks in Pandaria who would disagree with you. If you've ever quested at Tian Monastery in Jade Forest, you'd know of how many monks have trained there and that most, if not all of the senior monks are more than capable of taking 100 or more enemies head on, all at the same time. When training with them, you reach a point in the quest line where you must do the very same. Instructor Myang is an example of this, she defeated 100 hozen when she was 8 and a half. Master Stone Fist is another example of the Pandaren Monk's prowess, he has defeated 999 challengers in a row. It's not just Tian Monastery that has these types of Pandaren though. Kang, Fist of the First Dawn was the very first monk, and it was he and his followers who fought there way out of slavery from the Mogu when they had nothing to fight with but hands and fists. Another paragon among the Monks would be Master Greenpaw, who invented the Jade Strike, which transmuted the enemy into solid jade.

With all of this in mind, it is quite clear that the Pandaren are more than capable of adapting to their surroundings and finding new ways to fight and defend themselves. You say that Dwarves are extremely resilient while wearing full armor, but Pandaren are exactly the same without any armor or weapons at all, as proven many times in Pandaren lore, especially when slaves and children and take on multiple enemies at once, and liberate themselves from their oppressors who control nearly every stretch of the land. Monks are easily agile and able to disarm their foes with ease, I don't think a sturdy, stocky dwarf can stand up to that.

However, Dwarves do have their strong points, and i'd say Pandaren and Dwarves are evenly matched, but if we are talking about who would win in a fight to the death, i'd say a pandaren monk or Shado-Pan Warrior would.

[Verdugo]

As for taking warriors head on, there are many monks in Pandaria who would disagree with you. If you've ever quested at Tian Monastery in Jade Forest, you'd know of how many monks have trained there and that most, if not all of the senior monks are more than capable of taking 100 or more enemies head on, all at the same time. When training with them, you reach a point in the quest line where you must do the very same. Instructor Myang is an example of this, she defeated 100 hozen when she was 8 and a half. Master Stone Fist is another example of the Pandaren Monk's prowess, he has defeated 999 challengers in a row. It's not just Tian Monastery that has these types of Pandaren though. Kang, Fist of the First Dawn was the very first monk, and it was he and his followers who fought there way out of slavery from the Mogu when they had nothing to fight with but hands and fists. Another paragon among the Monks would be Master Greenpaw, who invented the Jade Strike, which transmuted the enemy into solid jade.
.

Sounds like empty words of the quest designers intended to make Pandaren more "badass". Its really obvious because teenagers describe their fanfic characters the same way.

[Toppy]

A gun..

'Muradin begins a battle by activating his stoneskin ability and grabbing his long rifle, blasting away at the most powerful opponent he can see. When the enemy closes to within range of his hammer, he attempts to stun opponents with his Storm Bolt feat before charging into melee, activating his stone flesh ability at the same time. Against a single opponent, or when fighting alongside powerful allies, he uses his Bash feat to keep foes out of the action'

He also taugh the Arthas how to fight. While on the verge of death he slew a massive Jormungar with one blow and became the King of the Frostborne Dwarfs. He has far more martial experience than Chen. He has the tools and the talent. That main thing that he has in his favour is he is not a stupid Panda! *snigger*

Well, Muradin wouldn't use a gun. He's a mountain king, by definition, they only stick to the old ways.

The WC3 definition of them, bolded is the important:

The Mountain Kings, or 'Thanes' as they are known in Khaz Modan, are the mightiest Dwarven warriors under the mountain. Wielding both enchanted warhammers and hand axes, these fierce fighters live to test themselves against worthy opponents. Unconcerned with their race's preoccupation with mechanical devices and mining precious minerals, Mountain Kings live only for battle. Dedicated to safeguarding the Alliance which saved their kingdom during the Second War, the Mountain Kings can be counted upon to rally behind any banner that stands between freedom and the ever looming shadow of evil.

Chen has size, weight, reach, and likely strength on his size (even normal pandaren are stupidly strong). And of course, Muradin would be fighting three Chens, not one. Thats kinda the fight deciding factor. Well that, and how Muradin would have trouble simply hitting the Pandaren in the first place.

[Deadite]

Well, Muradin wouldn't use a gun. He's a mountain king, by definition, they only stick to the old ways.

Chen has size, weight, reach, and likely strength on his size (even normal pandaren are stupidly strong). And of course, Muradin would be fighting three Chens, not one. Thats kinda the fight deciding factor. Well that, and how Muradin would have trouble simply hitting the Pandaren in the first place.

Yeah but the Three Chens would be fighting Six Muradins for the same non-specific reason there are suddenly three Chens. So Muridan ftw.

[Toppy]

Yeah but the Three Chens would be fighting Six Muradins for the same non-specific reason there are suddenly three Chens. So Muridan ftw.

Storm Earth and Fire. Splits Chen into three other Pandaren. I figured it didn't need explaining.

Sounds like empty words of the quest designers intended to make Pandaren more "badass". Its really obvious because teenagers describe their fanfic characters the same way.

It's a common kung-fu story trope. It's found in stories all over the asian nations: warriors going up against stupidly large odds and winning out.

And of course, WoW is damn near "fanfic stuff" the setting. It doesn't matter if it seems over the top, its there, and its part of the canon. Hell, fighting many opponents at once is a common trope on all levels of WoW. Especially if you have magic on your side, which the Monks do. On one occasion a magically charged Varian took on the whole dang warsong clan and beat the snot out of Garrosh.

[Drilnos]

It's a brewmaster (in WC3, in WoW the move was given to the dps spec) move called Storm, Earth and Fire. The monk splits into three elemental clones. It's about as specific as you can get.

[Deadite]

Storm Earth and Fire. Splits Chen into three other Pandaren. I figured it didn't need explaining.

Does that move not just summon some sort of spirits to attack your target and are they not at greatly reduced damage? Never played a Monk nor a Pandaran. I don't think it duplicates Chen twice. Either way they would all be stunned and obliterated.

Mountain kings boast prodigious combat abilities. They are ferocious in melee combat, wielding the traditional weapons of their race to decimate their foes. Their attacks leave opponents stunned and reeling. While they do not focus their efforts on discovering the secrets of the titans, they have long known of a powerful spark within every Ironforge dwarf - and mountain kings draw upon this spark and fan it into a raging flame. They conjure magic hammers and axes to hurl at their targets, stunning and slowing them so they can get close enough to use their real weapons. They transform themselves into silver-sheened creatures of living stone, shrugging off all attacks and hacking through flesh and bone with frightening ease.

Sounds kinda far more badass than some chubby Panada who knows a bit of Kung Fu imho....

[Toppy]

Does that move not just summon some sort of spirits to attack your target and are they not at greatly reduced damage? Never played a Monk nor a Pandaran. I don't think it duplicates Chen twice. Either way they would all be stunned and obliterated.

Mountain kings boast prodigious combat abilities. They are ferocious in melee combat, wielding the traditional weapons of their race to decimate their foes. Their attacks leave opponents stunned and reeling. While they do not focus their efforts on discovering the secrets of the titans, they have long known of a powerful spark within every Ironforge dwarf - and mountain kings draw upon this spark and fan it into a raging flame. They conjure magic hammers and axes to hurl at their targets, stunning and slowing them so they can get close enough to use their real weapons. They transform themselves into silver-sheened creatures of living stone, shrugging off all attacks and hacking through flesh and bone with frightening ease.

Sounds kinda far more badass than some chubby Panada who knows a bit of Kung Fu imho....

The one Chen does in WC3 and Heroes of the Storm summons three different spirits: An Earth themed Pandaren that hurls boulders and uses a giant rock as a weapon. A Lightning Pandaren who controls lightning and wind. And a Fire Pandaren that uses a pair of swords and is constantly immolated in flame. You have seen this art from blizz, its essentially what Chen turns into. A lot of monk players were pissed when they finally got Storm Earth and Fire and it ended up being some crappy, weak, ugly, little move compared to how great it was when Chen used it.


We're going to assume this is what Chen uses, rather than the player ver. Otherwise Muradin would use the player version of Avatar, which makes you into a slightly larger walking turd.

And "a bit of Kung Fu" is a bit of an understatement. The pandaren have been shown to do some very crazy things with their Kung-fu, since this is the magical sort. Do remember, when they first learned how to use it, that is, when the training was still in its infancy, they used it to topple an empire.

[Deadite]

And "a bit of Kung Fu" is a bit of an understatement. The pandaren have been shown to do some very crazy things with their Kung-fu, since this is the magical sort. Do remember, when they first learned how to use it, that is, when the training was still in its infancy, they used it to topple an empire.

I think we have to go with that great philosopher The Hound.

Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: Your friend's dead, and Meryn Trant's not, 'cause Meryn Trant had armor. And a big fucking sword.

For all the fancy tricks of Drunken Style Kung Fu and being a Monk you are still a guy in a silk dress. How can you fight this...

[Drilnos]

I think we have to go with that great philosopher The Hound.

Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: Your friend's dead, and Meryn Trant's not, 'cause Meryn Trant had armor. And a big fucking sword.

For all the fancy tricks of Drunken Style Kung Fu and being a Monk you are still a guy in a silk dress. How can you fight this...

Because this is Warcraft and not Game of Thrones.

[Toppy]

I think we have to go with that great philosopher The Hound.

Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: Your friend's dead, and Meryn Trant's not, 'cause Meryn Trant had armor. And a big fucking sword.

For all the fancy tricks of Drunken Style Kung Fu and being a Monk you are still a guy in a silk dress. How can you fight this...

Well Chen did fight Garrosh's fully armored Orcs by kicking them 5 feet into the air. Armor doesn't protect well against falling.

The Hound also had range, strength, and size. Muradin has none of this (his and Chens strength may be comparable, but the hound was WAY stronger, you cant say that here).

Don't know how far you or anyone else is with GoT, so, spoiler, The Hound died to someone dancing around taking pot shots.

When you take magical weapons into account, armor doesnt really mean anything. So it doesn't matter what Chen wears. All Chen needs to do is trip up Muradin, or disarm him, or get a blow to his head, ignite the dwarf, or use storm earth and fire and decimate him with a giant magical boulder, or really any sort of magic.

[Jester Joe]

Because this is Warcraft and not Game of Thrones.

I mean, if we're going by other things, when Brewmaster in Dota 2 uses Primal Split (Which unless I'm mistaken, Brewmaster is just the Dota equivalent of Chen from WC3 anyway, and Primal Split is just Storm, Earth, and Fire), all the clones are arguably stronger than Brewmaster himself, since they are basically made out of the elements they're named for.

[Sooba]

Well Chen did fight Garrosh's fully armored Orcs by kicking them 5 feet into the air. Armor doesn't protect well against falling.

The Hound also had range, strength, and size. Muradin has none of this (his and Chens strength may be comparable, but the hound was WAY stronger, you cant say that here).

Don't know how far you or anyone else is with GoT, so, spoiler, The Hound died to someone dancing around taking pot shots.

When you take magical weapons into account, armor doesnt really mean anything. So it doesn't matter what Chen wears. All Chen needs to do is trip up Muradin, or disarm him, or get a blow to his head, ignite the dwarf, or use storm earth and fire and decimate him with a giant magical boulder, or really any sort of magic.

If we're really going to talk about GoT: 1) he wasn't really killed by someone "dancing around", but rather was mortally wounded from a multiple v one fight. And 2) he's not actually dead. Unless of course you meant GREGOR`s death, in which case it's still a moot point because he died to poisoning. (And has been raised to undeath).

On the other hand we don't really know the fate of syrio either. (And no amount of armour wouldve saved Oberyn) So the other fellow's point still rings hollow.

Ultimately there is no lesson of armor, one way or the other. It was simply another of GRRMs portrayals of ethnocentrism, and is a rather good one.

[Deadite]

The Hound also had range, strength, and size. Muradin has none of this (his and Chens strength may be comparable, but the hound was WAY stronger, you cant say that here).

Don't know how far you or anyone else is with GoT, so, spoiler, The Hound died to someone dancing around taking pot shots.

When you take magical weapons into account, armor doesnt really mean anything. So it doesn't matter what Chen wears. All Chen needs to do is trip up Muradin, or disarm him, or get a blow to his head, ignite the dwarf, or use storm earth and fire and decimate him with a giant magical boulder, or really any sort of magic.

Umm i did not mean to bring the Hound into the fight. So stop with the GoT stuff!! Was just saying that armour will be a huge advantage. You think Muradin will just stand there and take a beating? Reading the description of the Mountain Kings they will be doing fancy smancy magic as well. They tap into the power of the Titans. So given they sound like they have both superior magic and fighting skills and they are encased in armour i don't think Chen will be much of a problem. Obviously we will never sway each other either way. So Muradin ftw all day.

[Toppy]

Umm i did not mean to bring the Hound into the fight. So stop with the GoT stuff!! Was just saying that armour will be a huge advantage. You think Muradin will just stand there and take a beating? Reading the description of the Mountain Kings they will be doing fancy smancy magic as well. They tap into the power of the Titans. So given they sound like they have both superior magic and fighting skills and they are encased in armour i don't think Chen will be much of a problem. Obviously we will never sway each other either way. So Muradin ftw all day.

Well armor is a moot point period when magic is involved and they both make use of it. It goes back to the question of "Can Muradin get a good blow on Chen in the first place". As far as we know, Muradin has two primary magic attacks: throwing a hammer, and causing a localized thunder clap. How much use would either of those be vs Chen who could close any gap rapidly. If Muradin goes Avatar, then Chen simply splits himself into three creatures who are also magic immune (going by WC3).

I mean, you say Muradin's magic is superior, but a mountain king seems to have a more basic understanding of titans than advanced. Their great magical abilities are about on par with a novice shaman. Nor can you say Muradin's fighting skills are more advanced than Chens since both of them are reknowned fighters, and both come from people are are naturally powerful: though I would argue that your average pandaren is stronger than your average dwarf.

[birdyy]

Well armor is a moot point period when magic is involved and they both make use of it. It goes back to the question of "Can Muradin get a good blow on Chen in the first place". As far as we know, Muradin has two primary magic attacks: throwing a hammer, and causing a localized thunder clap. How much use would either of those be vs Chen who could close any gap rapidly. If Muradin goes Avatar, then Chen simply splits himself into three creatures who are also magic immune (going by WC3).

I mean, you say Muradin's magic is superior, but a mountain king seems to have a more basic understanding of titans than advanced. Their great magical abilities are about on par with a novice shaman. Nor can you say Muradin's fighting skills are more advanced than Chens since both of them are reknowned fighters, and both come from people are are naturally powerful: though I would argue that your average pandaren is stronger than your average dwarf.

Should just give it up. Most of the people saying muradin are just saying it because they dont like lolpandas. Things like "Zomg hes just a chubby lazy panda muradin is a super hardcore badass that lives through frostsmourne's iceomg arthas."

And one guy said Mountain kings were OP in wc3... but he forgets Storm earth and fire completely counters storm hammer's stun lock.

[Raugnaut]

Actually, the trolls, aquir, and Faceless Ones were on Azeroth before the titans came in and created the Earthen.

With that in mind though, it's very possible the fleshy Dwarves were made around the same time as Pandaren, or vise versa. Mostly because when the Sundering happened, it triggered the current Earthen that were affected with the Curse of Flesh to turn to flesh. And around that time, Mogu were also turned to Flesh and started to enslave the Pandaren.

So to be honest, I could assume that Pandaren were actually born before the Dwarven races became flesh, all because there were already Pandaren to be enslaved by these new flesh mogu, which were made same time as Dwarves.

One could argue that Earthen=Dwarves and it doesn't matter if something came in between, but there's not enough info to suggest when Pandaren came after the Titans landed.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Dwarf#Origin_and_evolution
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Pandaren#Slaves_of_the_mogu
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Great_Sundering
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Age_of_a_Hu...ngs_%28time%29
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ask_CDev#As...wers_-_Round_2

Number of contradictions in those gamepedia articles (Also in the game itself). For instance, there are NO old dwarven settlements near Uldum, and Uldum has since been 100% connected to the Tol'vir. I suppose its possible that the Earthen in Uldum further turned into the Pygmies of Uldum...

A couple things wrong in your statement - The period of Mogu Enslavement of the Pandaren happened LONG before the Sundering. Pandaria was under Pandaren rule during the Sundering. The Earthen weren't "made" around the same time as the Pandaren. Rather, according to the WoW lore, the early versions of the Earthen, when they succumbed to the Curse of Flesh, turned into troggs, and Earthen V2 turned into simply softer Earthen when they succumbed to the Curse of Flesh. Earthen V1 was pretty much phased out after the advent of V2 (Troggs still existed, but multiplied on their own) so when the Sundering happened, ALL Earthen were V2. They retreated to Titan holdings during the Sundering, went into a deep hibernation for a few thousand years, and came out even more badly affected by the Curse of Flesh then they normally would have been (And we get the Dwarves of today). So yea, current-day Dwarves came out LONG after the Pandaren were made, and are actually one of the more recent races in Azeroth, if you count Dwarves as seperate from Earthen. (Pandaren are likely to be related to some sorta ancient, akin to how the Quilboar are the offspring of that one boar ancient, and Harpies are related to that one bird ancient)

Muradin vs Chen? In Heroes, Muradin will always win due to stuns and basic attack slows. In Warcraft 3, Chen woulda won because he was OP in that game. In WoW, it would be a close fight entirely dependent on who crit the most.