Grim Patron decks, bringing a new meaning to the term OTK?

[Rennadrel]

Removal has no play, you literally die in one turn.
As for the low attack minions, I didn't even die to the patrons, I died because of two 15 attack Frothing Berserkers with charge that were buffed enough by the patrons. Imagine that, 15 attack minions with charge.

I think that is one of the issues more so with playing low attack minion decks, the Grim Patrons can farm damage for Frothing Berserker off low attack minions without dying.

[Mormolyce]

Slightly OT but I've heard people use the phrase "one-hit kill combo" referring to Kaelthas in HOTS...

To be fair, a combo with only one move would be extremely easy to pull off.

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Because you're assuming your victory condition is the same as it is in other matchups. You've just gotta wrap your head around the way patron warriors work, and it won't feel like you're being punished for winning any more.

IMO the problem with Handlocks is that they fuck you on both ends. Rush them hard? JK Molten Giants. Don't rush them hard? GG Mountain Giants.

Hunters have a similar issue with UTH and Mark vs. ridiculous face pressure.

[Wondercrab]

IMO the problem with Handlocks is that they fuck you on both ends. Rush them hard? JK Molten Giants. Don't rush them hard? GG Mountain Giants.

Hunters have a similar issue with UTH and Mark vs. ridiculous face pressure.

The tactic with handlocks is generally to bring them to around ~15 HP, then try to set up a situation where you can burst the rest of that health all in one go (or bring them low enough to finish with whatever direct damage you have in your hand next turn). Handlock is one of those decks that requires you to play *very* carefully against in a control vs control setting. It's very much a chess match of slowly dismantling a piece of their deck at a time until you eke out the advantage in the long run, without ever putting yourself in a spot where you're going to get multiple 8/8s played against you in one turn with no way to answer them.
Very aggressive face decks often go too fast for the typical handlock to reliably deal with, especially considering that molten giants are not something you mulligan for unless you're near certain you're up against an aggressive deck (and even then, there are usually better answers to dig for, like hellfire).

[Mormolyce]

The tactic with handlocks is generally to bring them to around ~15 HP, then try to set up a situation where you can burst the rest of that health all in one go (or bring them low enough to finish with whatever direct damage you have in your hand next turn). Handlock is one of those decks that requires you to play *very* carefully against in a control vs control setting. It's very much a chess match of slowly dismantling a piece of their deck at a time until you eke out the advantage in the long run, without ever putting yourself in a spot where you're going to get multiple 8/8s played against you in one turn with no way to answer them.
Very aggressive face decks often go too fast for the typical handlock to reliably deal with, especially considering that molten giants are not something you mulligan for unless you're near certain you're up against an aggressive deck (and even then, there are usually better answers to dig for, like hellfire).

This is all true if you're playing a control deck.

If you're a rush or zoo type and don't win by round 4 due to the handlock having a shit draw (which is pretty rare), you just lose.

[Rennadrel]

To be fair, a combo with only one move would be extremely easy to pull off.

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IMO the problem with Handlocks is that they fuck you on both ends. Rush them hard? JK Molten Giants. Don't rush them hard? GG Mountain Giants.

Hunters have a similar issue with UTH and Mark vs. ridiculous face pressure.

You could fix that by limiting them to one each per deck.

[Wondercrab]

This is all true if you're playing a control deck.

If you're a rush or zoo type and don't win by round 4 due to the handlock having a shit draw (which is pretty rare), you just lose.

That's true of a lot of face vs control matchups, though. If the aggro player doesn't secure the early game, the control deck has the overwhelming advantage from that point on. Handlock isn't even a very good counter to most super aggressive decks. They just move too fast for the handlock to capitalise on their advantages consistently enough.
Zoo is one of those matchups that's a little slower, verging (especially these days) toward the midrange, which is a sweet spot for handlocks to counter.

[Fus Ro Yay]

I think the cool thing about the patron decks is the way you can play it from almost nothing at all. if your opponent has a board full of low cost minions the patrons will simply flood the board, if you throw a zerker into the mix, you get a pretty heavy hit towards face aswell.
seen a friend play around with his own deck, and he climbed the ladder much higher than he usually does.

[Mormolyce]

You could fix that by limiting them to one each per deck.

That's what I suggested, but of course that means making them legendaries.

That's true of a lot of face vs control matchups, though. If the aggro player doesn't secure the early game, the control deck has the overwhelming advantage from that point on. Handlock isn't even a very good counter to most super aggressive decks. They just move too fast for the handlock to capitalise on their advantages consistently enough.
Zoo is one of those matchups that's a little slower, verging (especially these days) toward the midrange, which is a sweet spot for handlocks to counter.

It's very different with Hand though. As zoo I have a decent winrate against most other control decks, but hand is a hard counter. Securing the early game is not enough on its own, you basically need the stars to align and them not draw any decent cards to stop you with, ie half their deck.

[Ravex]

This is all true if you're playing a control deck.

If you're a rush or zoo type and don't win by round 4 due to the handlock having a shit draw (which is pretty rare), you just lose.

When did Zoo stop being a control deck?

[Sarevokcz]

When did Zoo stop being a control deck?

zoo is more of a tempo deck nowadays, because frankly, ALL decks contest board the first couple of turns (even facehunter in some matchups) until they can secure strong position and then just go face. I cant really write with a straight face, that zoo is a control deck because it traded on t2 and t3 and used implosion...

[Mormolyce]

When did Zoo stop being a control deck?

Uh, it never was?

You do spend a lot of time trading rather than going face but zoo is still... well, it's a zoo type deck.

[Deleted]

I understand that you shouldn't swam the field with minions with less than 3 of attack because Patron decks punish them, but even if you play by the book sometimes there is nothing you can do. Just had a Patron Warrior that had 0 minions in the field play Warsong Commander+Frothing Berserker+Patron+Whirlwind+Whirlwind+Death's Bite proc in the same turn (all discounted by turn 6 Thaurissian) and deal close to 50 damage to me in that same turn and that is a bit disgusting when I had no minions in the field with less than 3 attack.

[haxartus]

This deck is literally destroying the game. It is impossible to beat this with a mid range deck, you need either strong face deck or an extremely late game deck.
It's just such a cheap way to win that it deserves a special deck designed to counter it, like some ridiculous mill combo.

[Mormolyce]

I understand that you shouldn't swam the field with minions with less than 3 of attack because Patron decks punish them, but even if you play by the book sometimes there is nothing you can do. Just had a Patron Warrior that had 0 minions in the field play Warsong Commander+Frothing Berserker+Patron+Whirlwind+Whirlwind+Death's Bite proc in the same turn (all discounted by turn 6 Thaurissian) and deal close to 50 damage to me in that same turn and that is a bit disgusting when I had no minions in the field with less than 3 attack.

That's a perfect storm though. You have to push them so that they are forced to use their cards to deal with you instead of saving them for a combo.

Mind you I'm zoo, so I have no real difficulty with patron.

[breadisfunny]

When did Zoo stop being a control deck?

pretty sure it's an aggro deck.

[Deleted]

pretty sure it's an aggro deck.

Well, there are some variation of Zoo that is aggro, but I would say Zoo is tempo. Also, they are kind of midrange nowadays with Malganis shinanigans imo.

Patron is silly as hell, they have so many combos it's stupid.

[Mormolyce]

Zoo isn't aggro. Although I guess it depends how you define "aggro".

It has lots of low cost minions, however good Zoo players focus on controlling the board. If you go face all the time as Zoo, decent players will generally obliterate you.

[QuiteTheNoob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-UXf6QAsM

"Grim Patron decks, bringing a new meaning to the term OTK?"

I think we know the answer to that.

[Deleted]

There are games where you simply cannot do anything at all and no matter how well you played you will lose because the opponent had all the RNG on his side and drew all the cards he needed to kill you. Grim Patron does that sometimes (as seen in the video above) but there are other decks that can also do that.

I met a Legendary Priest another day in Casual Mode and he was playing a gimmicky deck that worked perfectly fine for him and he won the game because he got everything he needed to put his strategy in motion:

- He did nothing for 2 turns and on Turn 3 he plays Acolyte of Pain;
- Turn 4 he plays a Pyro+Ressurect, kills my 1 health minions (was playing paladin), gets his Acolyte back in action and draws another card;
- I deal with his minions, start populating the board fast and on his turn 5 he plays Stranglethorn Tiger;
- He plays Auctioneer, Silences one of my minions, uses Coin and Power Word: Shields his Tiger;
- By my turn 7 I play Dr. Boom and have the kill next turn to which he answers by playing Power Word Shield, 2x Divine Spirit+Inner Fire on his cloacked Tiger and 1 shots me.

Ends up BMing me in the end with "Sorry" and ends with a "Well Played". Well played indeed I say.

[Mormolyce]

There are games where you simply cannot do anything at all and no matter how well you played you will lose because the opponent had all the RNG on his side and drew all the cards he needed to kill you. Grim Patron does that sometimes (as seen in the video above) but there are other decks that can also do that.

I met a Legendary Priest another day in Casual Mode and he was playing a gimmicky deck that worked perfectly fine for him and he won the game because he got everything he needed to put his strategy in motion:

- He did nothing for 2 turns and on Turn 3 he plays Acolyte of Pain;
- Turn 4 he plays a Pyro+Ressurect, kills my 1 health minions (was playing paladin), gets his Acolyte back in action and draws another card;
- I deal with his minions, start populating the board fast and on his turn 5 he plays Stranglethorn Tiger;
- He plays Auctioneer, Silences one of my minions, uses Coin and Power Word: Shields his Tiger;
- By my turn 7 I play Dr. Boom and have the kill next turn to which he answers by playing Power Word Shield, 2x Divine Spirit+Inner Fire on his cloacked Tiger and 1 shots me.

Ends up BMing me in the end with "Sorry" and ends with a "Well Played". Well played indeed I say.

I remember way back when the game was new I tried to get a stealth/buff deck working. The number of times it falls flat on its face is much greater than the number of times it works unfortunately. It relies on your opponent playing very slow and not being able to either pressure you or control the board.