Fixing some underpowered mage talents

[Deleted]

Actually 2 of them: Evanesce and Alter Time.

They are both under used and they both fulfill their role in a poor manner. This is my suggestion to solve them easily, invert them.

Keep only the positioning part of Alter Time and move it to tier 1. It would be a usefull way to move around during an encounter.
Any time you need to move out of some area and reposition you could make use of Alter Time. Because you're moving anyway, you avoid most of the damage so the healing component of Alter Time is unnecessary. Also as you don't need to balance 2 effects in one, you can lower the cooldown to be as good as the other 2 options on that tier.

Move Evanesce to tier 2, the talent already makes more sense as a defensive talent today. It will never compete with ice floes for movement, and the only time you would take it is to cheese some damage mechanics. If you put it on tier 2, you may actually see some use for Evanesce in comparison to Ice Barrier or Flameglow.

That's all.

[Deleted]

Actually 2 of them: Evanesce and Alter Time.

They are both under used and they both fulfill their role in a poor manner. This is my suggestion to solve them easily, invert them.

Keep only the positioning part of Alter Time and move it to tier 1. It would be a usefull way to move around during an encounter.
Any time you need to move out of some area and reposition you could make use of Alter Time. Because you're moving anyway, you avoid most of the damage so the healing component of Alter Time is unnecessary. Also as you don't need to balance 2 effects in one, you can lower the cooldown to be as good as the other 2 options on that tier.

Move Evanesce to tier 2, the talent already makes more sense as a defensive talent today. It will never compete with ice floes for movement, and the only time you would take it is to cheese some damage mechanics. If you put it on tier 2, you may actually see some use for Evanesce in comparison to Ice Barrier or Flameglow.

That's all.

AT in T1 would also never compete with IF. IF is just to strong played well.
I think the problem is not that Eva or BS are to weak. IF is to strong. The CD/Charges are to low/high. Maybe reducing it to 2 charges would help.
For T2 i think most mages skill Flameglow. Its the brainless talent.
IB is mostly skilled due to the fact that its overall the best bet. U cant really do anything wrong with IB. Beside the fact of not casting it. Which is the problem many mages imo have with it. It still costs a GCD.
AT on the other side was a nice idea in SoO. But with the current Healmodel it doesn't fit at all.
U have real 1-hits where AT dont help at all.
U have smooth dmg over a long period where AT dont help again.
It should get back the 15% dmgreduce (or even more) to cheese some onehitabilitys.
Looking at BRF: (Heroic)
Gruul: U could counter Overheadsmash if it has 15% reduce.
Oregorger: Rolling is another nearly-onehit which could be counterable with 15% reduce
BF: I would go more for the positioning->getting Debuff->running out->porting back (here your theory of T1 gets in)
Darmac: No use at all
Thogar: U could survive a train with 15% reduce
Maidens: No really use. Most of the abilitys are not that hard.
Hans/Franz: U could cheese some stampers with reduce
Flamebender: We allready have good tools against meteor so no real use
Kromog: Not going in hands is allready a tactic so its fine
So for conclusion:
Reduce charges of IF to 2.
AT gets 15% dmgreduce back.

[solarfallz]

Alter Time never had 15% damage reduction. That was Temporal Shield which doesn't exist.

[Deleted]

Alter Time never had 15% damage reduction. That was Temporal Shield which doesn't exist.

Yes you are right. My failure. Current AT is the hybrid from TS and Old AT. Conclusion is the same. AT should get a dmg-reduction

[Woobels]

I feel mage defensive utility gets too strong if you can pick it without losing ice floes.
You can do a lot of pretty ridiculous stuff with evanesce + GI + block, it's just that ice floes balances it out because losing that is too big of a deal.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think mages need a buff in this regard, which this basically is.

[Worgslarg]

"Thogar: U could survive a train with 15% reduce"

Don't trains go through immunities and damage reductions?

[Deleted]

You can do a lot of pretty ridiculous stuff with evanesce + GI + block, it's just that ice floes balances it out because losing that is too big of a deal.

Evanesce and Ice block are exclusive and you can already run evanesce + GI.

I'm not advocating for more mage survability, but simply put, those 2 talents are wrong in many ways in their current respective tier. Ice floes is amazing, but toning it down won't change anything: Evanesce is wrong in the mobility tier because there are too few situations where 3s immunity will trump casting while moving. Unless it gets additional charges, the cooldown can't be wasted like that. It's a defensive talent by design, no matter the argument and especially because it implies you lose Iceblock.

Alter Time positioning capabilities would make a lot of sense in many encounters (Grull smash/petrified, Hans press, Oregorger p2, Kagraz, Furnace bombs, Blackhand marks, Maiden bombs) for the first tier given a reduced cooldown and would make for some really clutch play with blink. The biggest flaw is you rarelly will ever need both the health and the positioning component in Alter Time, which makes it a really poor tier 2 talent. Alter Time healing requires planning, and most damage you can plan you can avoid anyway by moving.

Also turning Alter Time into a damage reducing ability to bypass oneshot abilities, is basically what Evanesce do already. So my suggestion to switching the two is basically the same thing. Not to mention GI does it better.

[Polarthief]

Actually 2 of them: Evanesce and Alter Time.

They are both under used and they both fulfill their role in a poor manner. This is my suggestion to solve them easily, invert them.

Keep only the positioning part of Alter Time and move it to tier 1. It would be a usefull way to move around during an encounter.
Any time you need to move out of some area and reposition you could make use of Alter Time. Because you're moving anyway, you avoid most of the damage so the healing component of Alter Time is unnecessary. Also as you don't need to balance 2 effects in one, you can lower the cooldown to be as good as the other 2 options on that tier.

Move Evanesce to tier 2, the talent already makes more sense as a defensive talent today. It will never compete with ice floes for movement, and the only time you would take it is to cheese some damage mechanics. If you put it on tier 2, you may actually see some use for Evanesce in comparison to Ice Barrier or Flameglow.

That's all.

Yes to all of this, in addition to making Evanesce NOT replace Ice Block, then it'll DEFINITELY see some use.

[Araitik]

"Thogar: U could survive a train with 15% reduce"

Don't trains go through immunities and damage reductions?

They don't, but on Mythic they deal 2M damage, so even with the 90% dmg reduction from GInvis you can get killed.

Also, Alter Time without the healing component will be useless. Why ? Because on a 1min cooldown. Lower the cooldown ? Still useless. Why ? Because we already got Blink, which does exactly the same thing, is more practical to use.

If anything, a worthy Alter Time would only have the healing component, and on a 30 to 45s cooldown. Or even better, AT should be removed completely and replaced by the best talent ever, Temporal Shield.

[Deleted]

Also, Alter Time without the healing component will be useless. Why ? Because on a 1min cooldown. Lower the cooldown ? Still useless. Why ? Because we already got Blink, which does exactly the same thing, is more practical to use.

Blink is cool, no debate, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't get any mobility tier. We can have both.

[Deleted]

Thogar: U could survive a train with 15% reduce
Hans/Franz: U could cheese some stampers with reduce

Get hit by a train and you deserve to die, not a real use.
Healers says thanks for ranks, not a real use.

Yes, i am bored.

[solarfallz]

Yes to all of this, in addition to making Evanesce NOT replace Ice Block, then it'll DEFINITELY see some use.

They would have to nerf Evanesce pretty drastically in some other way if it didn't replace Ice Block. It would be ridiculously good.

[LocNess]

As others have said, its mainly more that Ice Floes is too strong than the others are too weak. Evanesce is already very good, and I use it on M Gruul/M Blast Furnace with decent effectiveness, so it has its niche uses and at least it actually works now compared to what it used to do.

As for Alter Time, I think it is fine as well. It has its niche uses, and not every talent needs to be 100% viable all the time IMO.

[Aphrel]

Actually 2 of them: Evanesce and Alter Time.

They are both under used and they both fulfill their role in a poor manner. This is my suggestion to solve them easily, invert them.

Keep only the positioning part of Alter Time and move it to tier 1. It would be a usefull way to move around during an encounter.
Any time you need to move out of some area and reposition you could make use of Alter Time. Because you're moving anyway, you avoid most of the damage so the healing component of Alter Time is unnecessary. Also as you don't need to balance 2 effects in one, you can lower the cooldown to be as good as the other 2 options on that tier.

Move Evanesce to tier 2, the talent already makes more sense as a defensive talent today. It will never compete with ice floes for movement, and the only time you would take it is to cheese some damage mechanics. If you put it on tier 2, you may actually see some use for Evanesce in comparison to Ice Barrier or Flameglow.

That's all.

Alter time whould almost never be better or even close to as good as Ice flows. The exeption its a patchwerkfight where the only mechanic is a living bomb.
The problem with teir 1 is that ice flows is to good not to use from a dps perspective.

Evancence in the defensive teir however, whould be very welcome. (instead of flameglow ugh)

[Deleted]

Evanesce belongs into tier 3, Ice Ward into tier 2 and then Alter Time into tier 1.

[Summer]

Wish they'd change Alter Time to Temporal Shield, I loved that talent :/

[Rinoa]

I too miss Temporal Shield. Alter Time in its current iteration is very strong though, don't undervalue it. It's basically either a gigantic heal (inferno slice, stands on Blackhand etc) or a movement cooldown (get bombed by an engineer on Blast Furnace -> AT -> run to the Heat Regulator and blow it up -> AT back). Highly useful in the right circumstances. Evanesce... not so much. At least not in BRF.

[Polarthief]

Or even better, AT should be removed completely and replaced by the best talent ever, Temporal Shield.

YES PLEASE. This would EASILY make me pick TS over FG, though IB begs for some serious buffing since it's worthless outside of soloing old content.

- - - Updated - - -

I too miss Temporal Shield. Alter Time in its current iteration is very strong though, don't undervalue it. It's basically either a gigantic heal (inferno slice, stands on Blackhand etc) or a movement cooldown (get bombed by an engineer on Blast Furnace -> AT -> run to the Heat Regulator and blow it up -> AT back). Highly useful in the right circumstances. Evanesce... not so much. At least not in BRF.

But Evanesce would be a million times better if it:

A. Didn't replace Ice Block, and
B. Wasn't on the same tier as IF/BS.

[Bryanator1989]

I miss Temporal Shield too. Ice barrier could use a buff.

[nickseng]

If they brought back TS, they'd have to nerf it so it wasn't the best talent in every single way. Might be easier to just buff the current tier.