LF Mythic Ret's Thoughts

[TomatoBisque]

I think people just want aoe because it tops charts and shit like that. But if stuff is dying so quickly that you can't even get a single DS off, adds staying up too long probably isn't what's wiping your raid.

[Deleted]

I think people just want aoe because it tops charts and shit like that. But if stuff is dying so quickly that you can't even get a single DS off, adds staying up too long probably isn't what's wiping your raid.

The point is that we will never be made single target kings. Although it hasn't been as bad this expansion, we have traditionally been nerfed in PvE based on complaints from PvP players due to our burst damage. This is hardly likely to be helped if they significantly buffed our single target damage even at the cost of AoE.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

The point is that we will never be made single target kings. Although it hasn't been as bad this expansion, we have traditionally been nerfed in PvE based on complaints from PvP players due to our burst damage. This is hardly likely to be helped if they significantly buffed our single target damage even at the cost of AoE.

PvP has been a thorn in PvE ret's side since wrath, doesn't change that ret was known for reliable dps during CDs for 8+ years until Blizzard took a shit over the spec in WoD (so far).
We're arguably the most RNG spec and out CD is nowhere close to being the strongest. On top of that we're mediocre at AoE and ST while 2-3 target cleave is beyond horrid (which is ok tbh, never been our strong suit). All this leaves 1 question; what's our 'niche'? ATM all we got to show for is Sac and BoP- great tools- but at this cost? No thanks!

[Astynax]

I think people just want aoe because it tops charts and shit like that. But if stuff is dying so quickly that you can't even get a single DS off, adds staying up too long probably isn't what's wiping your raid.

Some do but @ mythic level when personal play and mechanics overrule it, the meters dont matter as much. However, ret isnt that great at either and there are times where add damage is a big deal like on Thogar. If you can't kill all the adds the train doesnt leave and you all get pancaked. Some classes can be brought in to help with add damage big time, and some can be brought in for heavy boss damage. What would you bring a ret in for?

Hands you can get from a holy pally which most will have 1-2 with clemency so 2-4 charges.

[Deleted]

We're arguably the most RNG spec and out CD is nowhere close to being the strongest. On top of that we're mediocre at AoE and ST while 2-3 target cleave is !

These are indeed problems that are only likely to get worse into the next tier. That being said, I haven't minded how we have been overall for tier 17. I can honestly say there are only two fights I haven't liked and neither of them are due to the way our class works on them.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Only thing rets are good for in BRF is Hand of Sacrifice and Hand of Protection. It's been a massive tank cd raid- which is good for us but honestly that should be a bonus to bringing rets and not THE reason to bring rets, we're dpsers after all...

Oregorger - Sac tanks to mitigate raid damage.
Gruul - BoP AND Sac for tanks.
Flamedog bitch - not massive but still good on tanks.
Hanz'n Franz - Massive on tanks when they get grabbed.
Kromog - Skipping the hands with BoPs, GG- also very good sac fight.
Blast Furnace - very good for tanks when adds ramp up.
Beastlord - Sac to dispell the firedebuff if healers are out of range, BoPs to clear bleeds.
Train Boss - Sac on people who gets excessive stacks of fire.
Iron Maidens (probably the best sac + bop fight there is) - BoPs to remove Penetrating shots - Sacrifices to instantly dispel Convulsive Shadows without healers having to even think about it (try it- it's amazing). Added bonus is that you get 2 shadows per boat phase and that works perfectly with Clemency.
Blackhand - P1 BoPs save healers from having to move 1 demolition. - P2 you can bop your moonkins/demo locks going up and save them from taking damage. Sac is also nice on tanks.

and then there's our damage....
I just don't think our damage should be an afterthought, "oh hey, I do damage as well- bring me please!"

[RagnorZ]

Exactly. No more T17/DP for AoE/Cleaves. That would suck. Hopefully the new raid has alot more single target bosses. Otherwise, its back to sitting a on few bosses during progression

Yeah they need to un-nerf HoTR and DS.

It's pretty clear they over nerfed our aoe/cleave at the end of beta in preparation for the T17 set bonuses.

HoTR is far to weak, the aoe part being even weaker and the range tiny.

Also remove the FV buff for DS (FV weaving while fun is too many GCD's too much ramp up), adding that % damage and extra range back into base DS spell. It would makes EmpS and Sera more attractive to play, probably need to add x% weapon damage to FV to keep it competitive which would be good since a finisher is supposed to hit harder than generators.

[TomatoBisque]

I'm not saying Ret is fine (I am seriously considering switching to Holy at the moment) I just don't really get why it seems like everyone wants big aoe damage buffs

[Deleted]

I'm not saying Ret is fine (I am seriously considering switching to Holy at the moment) I just don't really get why it seems like everyone wants big aoe damage buffs

Because Ret AoE is horseshit and completely dependent on both set-up time AND procs? It's not like anybody is asking for a 1000% buff to DS, we'd just like to be able to cast a non-worthless AoE spell before shit is dead. I mean at this point in the tier if you don't get lucky with procs on say, Flamebender, you'll be lucky to get off two casts of DS before the dogs are all dead. Meanwhile, the warrior you're competing with is Skillstorming in the middle of them for 200k DPS.

Like idk about you but given the choice between a class that literally needs to press one I WIN button to do decent AoE and one that needs to spend at the very least 4 globals setting up any sort of worthwhile AoE damage I know which one I'm bringing for progress every single time.

[Deleted]

Like idk about you but given the choice between a class that literally needs to press one I WIN button to do decent AoE and one that needs to spend at the very least 4 globals setting up any sort of worthwhile AoE damage I know which one I'm bringing for progress every single time.

The one thing I'd say about that is that at least we won't have to do that in T18 as we won't be using Final Verdict. Now that may make our AoE less of a pain to set up, but whether it is able to do any damage remains to be seen.

[Astynax]

Yeah they need to un-nerf HoTR and DS.

It's pretty clear they over nerfed our aoe/cleave at the end of beta in preparation for the T17 set bonuses.

HoTR is far to weak, the aoe part being even weaker and the range tiny.

Also remove the FV buff for DS (FV weaving while fun is too many GCD's too much ramp up), adding that % damage and extra range back into base DS spell. It would makes EmpS and Sera more attractive to play, probably need to add x% weapon damage to FV to keep it competitive which would be good since a finisher is supposed to hit harder than generators.

I really agree with that part too but was hesitant on saying it since there could be something I'd overlook and be super OP. However, with a proc % it should feel rewarding to get a proc - not get a DS proc then have to wait to build up FV first :/

Another thing I wouldnt mind is having our HotR taken OFF the same CD as CS. It's not like we'll be weaving that into our normal rotation all the time, just a bit more reliable generation or AoE when we need it, not have to wait a few seconds when adds spawn because we just CS a single target. I dont get why a super basic low damage generator has to be restricted

[Tservo]

One thing I never understood is why our set bonuses don't reset the CDs on at lest Hammer of Wrath and maybe exorcism. Since we're so dependent on procs, having the CDs reset when we get the procs would make a huge difference in our consistent AoE dps. This could end up making our set bonus super OP though.