Could this be the reason PVP is in decline?

[Kreeshak]

Imagine the best 100 players in the world.

Lets say those have 2 alts and 1 friend that is below their skill level.
Lets say they also boost 50 characters each per season for real money.

That makes up for about 5000-5500 characters played by those top players.

That is easily all the top PVP spots up to duelist.

What are the chances an average person will not get disappointed about how bad he is compared to a gladiator guy, who one way or another plays at 2000 mmr?

Add to that scripts, kickbots, ddos, inflated achievements making finding a group a nightmare.

Could those 100 best players in the world, be the reason PVP is declining?

[solarfallz]

It is a factor, but not the only one.

[D-Throes]

I want a solo q system, doubt blizzard will ever implement it...

[Deleted]

I want a solo q system, doubt blizzard will ever implement it...

Yes because we all like it when we see shit geared scrubs, bots and afk-ers in random bgs, so why not have them in rated pvp as well? Don't kid yourself, you KNOW that is going to happen if solo queue becomes possible.

[Deleted]

Im gonna speculate from my point of view, this might be completely wrong since this is just what I
deduct from my personal experience/contact with pvp / players that play pvp / pvp streams that I watch.
Before I go mental I just want to be clear that when I refer to a pvp'er in this section,
I'm talking about those who just play this game for the pvp part and are not rlly intrested in anything else.

For the people that dont want to read the lengthy version, this is what I think is wrong:
-forced to level, aka pve
-gearing/playing with gear differencials is the most anti fair-pvp thing possible
-the above reasons making it such a huge pain in the *** making/playing other classes/specs,
so not enough variation in what we can play (without grinding forever)
-quite unbalanced game because its probably too hard to balance a spec for both pve and pvp
or large imbalances just staying in the game for way too long (weeks/months)
(so the problem is pve and pvp are in the same game)


I also have the feeling that 'hardcore' Pvp is probably at an all time low, the popular high end streamers are almost all gone,
I can only think of cdew stream that is still alive.
As for the reasons... My guess is that the pvp players are just tired of playing a game that is just not designed for them.

I think we want to open the game and play what we want to play, aka max level + full geared arena or rbg,
not spend weeks levelling toons, then more weeks and months gearing them so we dont fight others
with gear differencials, by the time that is done we are almost sick of playing it, and then we cant just
play another char/class for a bit or we have to go through this months long drag again.

They create 'pvp' zones like ashran wich every pvp'er that i have ever talked to hates like the plague.
Imo they just dont know what a player of this category wants or just cba adjusting the game for them.
Its just so painfull because I really enjoy wow pvp (and yes im talking about the maxlevel full geared kind).
But the fact that we have to jump through hoops for weeks/months before we can do it is driving me crazy.

I really think that wow COULD be a very large game/esport when its completely seperated from the normal wow
and we can just log on and pick whatever class/spec we want to play (fullgear maxlevel).
Combine that with a broad esport platform (game spectating, easy tournament organisation/streaming) and voila.
But that will probably never happen so...

/salty wow pvp player out

[Cempa]

Blizzard goes against what the customer wants...thats the reason...

Players want to have 'FUN' in 2's....Blizzard insists WoW is e-sport and MUST be played in 3's...

See the problem?

[Deleted]

Blizzard goes against what the customer wants...thats the reason...

Players want to have 'FUN' in 2's....Blizzard insists WoW is e-sport and MUST be played in 3's...

See the problem?

Nah, it has more to do with Blizzard's incompetence at balancing 2s, so they fucked that and told people 3s is the THE pvp.

[Deleted]

blizzard have always hated pvp they obviously wont say it but they have proved they might aswell just say fuck off PVPers we hate you. 3v3 is apparently the balanced area of pvp yet even 3v3 isnt balanced cos of god comp etc, they need to seperate pvp from pve

[Saladfork]

@biggischkris: GCDTV is still keeping it alive. But yeah, interest has been waning. But it is kinda natural--the season isn't ending soon, so no one feels compelled to really grind for titles. Streams/PvP were quite active right when WoD was released because things were new and fresh, but things have been stagnant for months. We haven't seen a single change since the tranq shot nerf & co., and there weren't even that many changes in that hotfix. As soon as the new season starts (and as we get closer to BlizzCon), arena will naturally become a lot more popular to watch & play (until it dips down again).

Arena itself is a ton of fun (3's specifically), and probably the only thing keeping a vast number of subscribers going. But interest oscillates with changes. It is a bit sad, but it is a consequence of Blizzard not doing enough for PvP. No one really expects any changes until 6.2 considering how few changes they've made since 6.0, so there is going to be stagnant activity until the end of the season is announced (for grinding titles). Whereas raid/dungeon content adds variability for PvE, patches and seasons are what add variability to PvP. PvE has at least gotten two full raids, on the PvP front we haven't had very many changes in over 4 months--except in Ashran, which I don't think too many people are "seriously" interested in.

As for why a lot of players have quit/stopped streaming, I think it is mostly related to the skill cap. No doubt, at a high level, 3's is competitive and takes a high level of skill. But individually, you can't separate yourself as much anymore (after the prune). Three big reasons:

• Stale abilities: Class-defining and creative moves like alter time and temporal shield have been replaced with things like ice nova and comet storm. Alter-time could be used both offensively and defensively, and temporal shield had to be carefully timed (to not be dispelled/to get value). Ice nova is purely offensive (sure you can use it defensively, but no one in their right mind would except in extreme situations). Comet storm, again, is just damage. Sure it is disguised as pretty icicles, but the ability itself is not interesting at all. And I can name examples for any class: warlock - fel flame, shadowflame. warrior - banners, safeguard-out-of-root. priest - life swap. etc.
• Passives: Don't get me wrong, I like some passives. But passive damage reduction and a reliance on passives as a whole is terrible. As a warlock, you rely on soul-link for 20% passive reduction + 10% passive reduction from unending will glyph. As mage, you rely on flameglow to eat damage for you. As a warrior, you sit in defensive stance for 20% passive reduction (all game). As a dk, you sit in blood stance all game. As a hunter, you go for 10% reduction. As a ret, you use a glyph for templar's verdict to give you 10% reduction. As a druid, you go in bear if you smell trouble. As a rogue, feint is practically 30% reduction. As disc/holy priest, you get focused will for 30% reduction. When players take immensely different amounts of damage, it limits creative swaps. Everyone has complained about how "training the healer" is so common--well it is because druids, rshams, hpals, and mwmonks don't really have passive reduction. It just tends to be most efficient when you don't have excessive CC.
• State of Healing (Dampening)/Punishes: Players aren't as punished for mistakes (at least at lower/mid level play). Most NS mechanics (wings + execution sentence, NS rdruid) completely erase all progress made. If the healer isn't in CC, your target will be topped, and it'll only cost a few % of mana. Because of this, some comps end up becoming "dampening" comps because they simply have no finish potential considering all the recoveries (they benefit from recovery as well). Mana is more or less just representative of how far dampening has built up, it doesn't ever become a factor until very very late in the game (except for priests). Sure--not having enough mana to cast a spell is annoying, but managing it should matter--and timing drinks has a skill cap of its own.

Sorry for the long rant. There are more reasons, of course. Those are my top 3 that I can think of. And I know 3's isn't the only PvP, but it is the funnest imo and has the most potential for balancing. If you don't like 3's, I really feel like you need to give it another try (or give it a first go, if you haven't done it already). Sure the game isn't in the best state right now, but it is enjoyable (if you play well), plus you get to meet all sorts of cool people (one of the most rewarding parts about 3's).

[Deleted]

Nah, it has more to do with Blizzard's incompetence at balancing 2s, so they fucked that and told people 3s is the THE pvp.

yet still theres stupid OP comps in 3's face it blizzard are fucking useless

[Packing an i5]

the majority of players want to have fun in 1v1, duels, Bgs, world pvp and 2s.

Blizzard attempts sort of to balance around 3v3.

a small community of 500 or so players want the game to be an Esport and balanced around 3v3. They are the most vocal on the forums and twitter about pvp changes.

I think the majority of players would also prefer if their race and spec did not factor into Viability for arena.

[Evelyn]

We're lacking pvp hot spots and incentives for world pvp. The pvp zone Ashran doesn't even feel like a pvp zone. I go there for group pvp, but end up doing solo pvp and being constantly zerged. It's useless. They took away Oqueue and that was a really popular add on for pvp groups. We have a built in group finder, but it just isn't the same. It's harder to find groups and to find good groups. This is the first season and only season where I stopped not even half way through, just out of frustration and boredom. I've participated in every arena season. So that says something. There is clearly something wrong and it desperately needs to be addressed. Hopefully 6.2 will give us something better, for pvp and for pve.

[Deleted]

hunters are the emobident of everything that is wrong with wow (pvp)

low skillcap classes being far too viable

[Deleted]

Russian premades farming bots and lag bombing for the best part of an hour are the reason I play less pvp.

[Amraelic]

Russian premades farming bots and lag bombing for the best part of an hour are the reason I play less pvp.

First toon was on a PVP server Dec. 2004. I played hardcore PVP through BC, then had to leave for most of WotLK, but came back about 6 months before cata. Between Cata and MoP, I participated in something like 3000 Arena matches.

Cheating (botting, mods, auto-scripts, etc.) has always been in WoW. But... honestly, it was mostly a FAIRLY rare thing. I can think of maybe a dozen very clear instances of cheaters before Cata.

But then in Cata, there seemed to be a steady increase in cheaters. People warping around. Getting auto-kicked. Being tracked down with AoE in stealth. More and more it became common place until finally near the end of MoP, you couldn't go through a weeks quota of Arenas without seeing some sort of cheating at least in one or two matches.

By the time WoD came out, I'd given up on PVP entirely. I ran ZERO Arenas after 6.0. And BGs were as bad as they had ever been. People just running through on auto-pilot was so common... I think I did a dozen or so, and gave up on them too.

Blizzard has never really had good control of PVP in this game. And in the past year, they lost containment on it. It appears to me they would rather phase out PVP than make it a viable, fair, and honest way of progression.

[Cempa]

...or simply allow PvE gear to be the same ilvl as PvP gear and give PvP items unique look and be done with it!

[Uoyredrum]

The decline is because there's blatantly overpowered classes and specs in pvp that blizzard won't fix and rampant kickbotting/trinket botting/combat scripts and they refuse to do anything about it even with proof. Not to mention in casual pvp there's so many bots that its hard to even get good games anymore.

[Packing an i5]

Bots, cheating, failure to balance the game and remove broken abilities and broken dps from major offending classes/ Comps In Arena.

RMD with a combat rogue is a plague right now sweeping the game at high MMR and at low MMR its anything with a resto druid and hunter.

That + No new content except Ashran which most discuss with sneer is why PVP in wow is a joke.

Want a balanced game play counter strike its fairly balanced.

Both factions have access to some of the same powerful guns and grenades. There are no classes to balance.

[Aori]

Kind of wish Blizzard would create a FFA king of the hill deathmatch type arena/battleground. Solo queue, earn rewards based on performance. Sounds fun in my head, been pushing this idea for years on various MMOs =/

[Tangra]

The OP listed some valid reasons. However, I ultimately believe that WoW PvP fails because controlling a wow character is more complicated than piloting a fighter jet or a space shuttle. Role playing games are inherently complex, and that complexity transfers horribly to PvP. WoW PvP controls are so complex that you are either born with the talents needed for top-notch performance or you're not. If you are not naturally born with abilities such as amazing muscle-memory that allows you to remember dozens of key-bindings easily, or insane multi-tasking skills, then your only option is to quit your job and practice PvP all day, which obviously most people can't do.

When we include balance problems that cause you to lose through no fault of your own, you end up with an utterly and completely demoralizing experience. It's simply so demanding that too much natural talent is needed, as well as no sentimental attachment to any spec since it could turn out to be crap for a given season, which of course doesn't work very well for something than people should be doing for fun.