Hologram protest in Madrid

[nextormento]

The dystopian corner of the world called Spain is passing a few measures to limit civic protest. Every political group except the one currently in presidency (People's Party) oppose it.

People are protesting against it in several ways.


I find this one particularly interesting. The imagery is strong, and gets the point across.
Spanish citizens held the first hologram protest in history in order to protest without violating the new draconian guidelines of the National Security Act, the new amendments to the Penal Code and the Anti-terror law.

El Mundo - Spanish
revolution-news - English

Is this the grim future of dissent?.

[apepi]

If I was one of those driving cars I would freak the fuck out.

[Sledfang]

Why do they need to protest so much, can all people vote there?

Or do they just want to protest in general about getting free stuff?

Over here, our protestors include a lot hoodlums.

[nextormento]

Why do they need to protest so much, can all people vote there?

Because getting officially queried only ~15 times through your entire life about your stance on how to run the state is too few. Protest is enshrined in democracies as an extra bit of feedback.

[Sledfang]

Because getting officially queried only ~15 times through your entire life about your stance on how to run the state is too few. Protest is enshrined in democracies as an extra bit of feedback.

That's fair, I just don't see why people do not support anti-terror laws. The weird part is most of the people who do this are also for bigger government. You can't just cherry pick social aspects and leave out state security.

[nextormento]

That's fair, I just don't see why people do not support anti-terror laws. The weird part is most of the people who do this are also for bigger government. You can't just cherry pick social aspects and leave out state security.

You are going to have a hard time providing evidence for that. Given we have our resident terrorist organization operating since the 60s -ETA-, it's pretty safe to assume that Spaniards are very much pro anti-terror legislation; and we already have them. These are 3 pieces of legislation, only one of which deals with terrorism. Unless you think carrying out an assembly in a public space is an act of terrorism.

[Sledfang]

You are going to have a hard time providing evidence for that. Given we have our resident terrorist organization operating since the 60s -ETA-, it's pretty safe to assume that Spaniards are very much pro anti-terror legislation; and we already have them. These are 3 pieces of legislation, only one of which deals with terrorism. Unless you think carrying out an assembly in a public space is an act of terrorism.

So why is this happening now?

With low fertility rates and more immigration from non-western cultures I expect your government will have to incrementally keep clamping down.

[nextormento]

So why is this happening now?

With low fertility rates and more immigration from non-western cultures I expect your government will have to incrementally keep clamping down.

After the last massacre by jihadist terrorism in France, many political groups agreed to pass some reforms. The government drafted and passed 3 pieces of legislation that 1) hardly deal with terrorism, 2) are too vague and 3) curtail tremendously our capacity to publicly dissent.
These are exceedingly clamping down on free citizens and not very much on criminals.

Not like I expected mmo-c to side for freedom of expression, but I thought we could agree on the holograms being cool or something.

[Deleted]

The dystopian corner of the world called Spain is passing a few measures to limit civic protest. Every political group except the one currently in presidency (People's Party) oppose it.

People are protesting against it in several ways.


I find this one particularly interesting. The imagery is strong, and gets the point across.
Spanish citizens held the first hologram protest in history in order to protest without violating the new draconian guidelines of the National Security Act, the new amendments to the Penal Code and the Anti-terror law.


Is this the grim future of dissent?.

Good thing I have a proton pack.

[Vea Lea]

That's fair, I just don't see why people do not support anti-terror laws. The weird part is most of the people who do this are also for bigger government. You can't just cherry pick social aspects and leave out state security.

antiterror laws unjustly targets a lot of people who dont have anything to do with terrorism at all

[Nadiru]

Because protesting while breaking a law, that just wouldn't do! Though to be fair, Madrid is absurdly hot during noon, I wouldn't protest in that either.

[Belize]

That's cool and spooky at the same time... ghost holograms...

[Deleted]

To show they disagree with this law they must protest but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests, so to show they disagree they must protest, but the law forbids protests.

[Mihalik]

That's fair, I just don't see why people do not support anti-terror laws. The weird part is most of the people who do this are also for bigger government. You can't just cherry pick social aspects and leave out state security.

You really don't understand what is going on here. (I'm not Spanish, but I live in Spain.)

I for one support almost every single economic measure taken by the current government (I actually think the measures didn't go far enough) and the economy is slowly, but surely picking up, and if you are a business owner it is actually starting to be quite noticeable.

BUT political corruption remains of a massive problem. As is government mismanagement, especially on a local or regional level. There is a long (very long list of reasons for which to protest, some I agree with some I don't), this law is using catch all phrases like "terrorism" and "national security" to severely restrict the right of the citizens to publicly protest and is vague and broad enough to be used to limit free speech substantially.

Another issue is how Spanish democracy works. Spain uses a deeply unpopular and complicated electoral mechanism called D'Hondt method, which is a highest averages method for allocating seats Congress.

This means two things in effect. 1, is that Congressmen are chosen by their parties and people vote for parties, so there is no personal accountability when it comes to the representatives, 2 is that a party can gain absolute majority in the legislative branch while only actually gaining about 25+% of voter support. This leads to the situation where often the government is able to govern without the actual consent of the people.

Also the way the Spanish constitution works, the only way to reform the electoral system is by essentially rewriting the constitution, something none of the major parties is willing to attempt considering that the Spanish constitution was essentially negotiated between 3 separate interest blocks (different national groups, Castillian Spaniards, Catalonians, Basques) and includes a long list of extremely ancient regional special exceptions and rights, that were inherited from 13th to 15th century Reconquista Spain.

[Huntermyth]

this is one of the best and most clever thing i've ever seen, when it comes to protesting something.

i salute whoever thought and made this. No Pasarán!

[Daethz]

Votes in the democratic world are nothing but a joke and publicity stunt.
If you feel you have power, you do.
Votes are essentially a placebo.

We are watching democracies around the world turn against their original values and against the people.
Soon i fear democracies will descend to a level where they are noticeably worse than communism was.

[draganid]

You really don't understand what is going on here. (I'm not Spanish, but I live in Spain.)

I for one support almost every single economic measure taken by the current government (I actually think the measures didn't go far enough) and the economy is slowly, but surely picking up, and if you are a business owner it is actually starting to be quite noticeable.

BUT political corruption remains of a massive problem. As is government mismanagement, especially on a local or regional level. There is a long (very long list of reasons for which to protest, some I agree with some I don't), this law is using catch all phrases like "terrorism" and "national security" to severely restrict the right of the citizens to publicly protest and is vague and broad enough to be used to limit free speech substantially.

Another issue is how Spanish democracy works. Spain uses a deeply unpopular and complicated electoral mechanism called D'Hondt method, which is a highest averages method for allocating seats Congress.

This means two things in effect. 1, is that Congressmen are chosen by their parties and people vote for parties, so there is no personal accountability when it comes to the representatives, 2 is that a party can gain absolute majority in the legislative branch while only actually gaining about 25+% of voter support. This leads to the situation where often the government is able to govern without the actual consent of the people.

Also the way the Spanish constitution works, the only way to reform the electoral system is by essentially rewriting the constitution, something none of the major parties is willing to attempt considering that the Spanish constitution was essentially negotiated between 3 separate interest blocks (different national groups, Castillian Spaniards, Catalonians, Basques) and includes a long list of extremely ancient regional special exceptions and rights, that were inherited from 13th to 15th century Reconquista Spain.

what a nightmare. how does anything get done in spain?

[nextormento]

what a nightmare. how does anything get done in spain?

D'Hondt, and other highest averages methods are used in *many* other countries and they do fine.
It's only when observed in conjunction with our diverse nationalities that it gets complicated. Regions with nationalist parties often shift their vote to those parties rather than to the state-wide parties. This makes them small but strong contenders in congress: when no party gets supermajority, they can easily establish a government in coalition with the nationalist groups (such was the case in 1996). This strengthens the feeling in citizens that votes from some regions weight more than theirs.

Spain is, and has historically been, a bit of hotchpotch. And while sometimes you wished things were a bit more consistent, I appreciate our politico-cultural diversity. Shit gets done eventually, like it does everywhere else.

[AeneasBK]

My brother is living in, and is one of the lucky people in, Madrid under 35 to have a job (teaching). He says things are pretty depressing over there, big "little-to-no-prospects" mentality among younger people, some demographics have massive unemployment, and 'mostly' people seem to blame corruption in the government for the issues.

I would expect some rioting over the summer if things escalate. But hey, maybe he gets a very one sided view, I don't know. Either ways sounds kinda crappy.

[Soulwind]

My brother is living in, and is one of the lucky people in, Madrid under 35 to have a job (teaching). He says things are pretty depressing over there, big "little-to-no-prospects" mentality among younger people, some demographics have massive unemployment, and 'mostly' people seem to blame corruption in the government for the issues.

I would expect some rioting over the summer if things escalate. But hey, maybe he gets a very one sided view, I don't know. Either ways sounds kinda crappy.

We have some trigger-happy military leaders who would love an excuse to defend the goverment. People in Spain know violence won't get us anywhere, specially with Europe supporting these corrupt parties.