CPU Upgrade..

[misfit0r]

With the exception of the case and a recent GFX update (was originally a Radeon HD 5750) - I put this rig together towards the end of Wrath. It ran great throughout Cata but I quit 2 weeks in to Panda and didn't get to see how far it had fallen till I cam back in WoD. I wouldn't say it's terrible by any means in a normal raid environment.. but it just DIES in any of the outdoor content (4-10 FPS for the world bosses..OI!)


While the GPU update did help.. slightly.. it wasn't near what I was hoping it would be.

Current Setup:

CPU: AMD Phenom II 1055T (OC to 3.2GHz)
CPU Cooler: Antec Kuhler 920
Motherboard: ASUS Crosshair IV Formula
Memory: 2x Corsair Vengeance Pro 4GB (CMY8GX3M2A1600C9)
Memory: 2x Patriot 1600LL 2GB
Storage: Corsair Force 3 SSD 256GB
Storage: Maxtor Diamond Max 320GB
Storage: Western Digital 1 TB
Video Card: XFX R9 280
Case: Antec Eleven Hundred
Power Supply: Antec HCG-620M 80+ Bronze

I'm running the 3029 BIOS revision on the Crosshair IV, so I can jump to an AM3+ chip.. was thinking and 8350.

Question being.. would that be worth it in the long rung?
Or should I just jump over to an intel board\processor now for longevity sake?

[chazus]

Intel, simply put. In a raid environment, especially world bosses, you'll see a massive improvement.

The 8350 @ 4.0ghz will give you about a 20% boost. (stock speed)
The 4670K @ 4.0ghz will give you about a 140% boost. (mild overclock)

[Windscythe]

Memory: 2x Corsair Vengeance Pro 4GB (CMY8GX3M2A1600C9)
Memory: 2x Patriot 1600LL 2GB

What's up with this? I'm not sure using 4 modules, 2 sets from different companies and different sizes across your ram is helping. You might try going down to just the 2x4GB Corsair sticks and see if that makes any difference.

Other than that you would see massive gains if you went with a 4690k(cheaper than 4670k at this point). You would have to switch over to a Z97 motherboard. Some Z87's work as well for the haswell refresh. I would suggest an Asus Z97-A.

You could also take the opportunity to go down to a smaller form factor like Mini ITX since you would have to get a new motherboard.

The ASRock Z97E-ITX is a pretty amazing board for the price. If you aren't planning on SLI/Crossfire in the future.

[misfit0r]

What's up with this? I'm not sure using 4 modules, 2 sets from different companies and different sizes across your ram is helping. You might try going down to just the 2x4GB Corsair sticks and see if that makes any difference.

Got the Corsair when I picked up the R9 280. Someone mis-labeled the memory at Frys, was supposed to be 69 and some change w/ a $20 mail in rebate.
Stock person labeled the price as though it was 'on sale' for 49, still got the rebate voucher.

Similar thing happened with the SSD 2 years ago. Basically paid $25 for the 256GB SSD heh!

Either way, would that cause much of a performance dip even though they are still rated the same? DDR3 1600 w same CL and voltage settings?

Other than that you would see massive gains if you went with a 4690k(cheaper than 4670k at this point). You would have to switch over to a Z97 motherboard. Some Z87's work as well for the haswell refresh. I would suggest an Asus Z97-A.

Assuming the i7 4790k would be 'overkill' for WoW - not to mention an extra $100 heh!
Might be nice if\when I decide to jump back in to the progression push and record attempts for posterity... or something.

Or do you think the 4690k can sustain 60'ish FPS stable while recording and playing with the rest of my setup?


....also 30 minutes wasted trying to figure out why i couldn't post because of a link/address that I can't use yet. Stupid at symbol :|

- - - Updated - - -

You could also take the opportunity to go down to a smaller form factor like Mini ITX since you would have to get a new motherboard.

The ASRock Z97E-ITX is a pretty amazing board for the price. If you aren't planning on SLI/Crossfire in the future.

A mini would look awfully inadequate in my Eleven Hundred. HEH!
Also, as nice it it might be to drop down to the Mini ITX - The R9 280 wouldn't allow for that either :|
Unless I'm missing something.

[ComputerNerd]

Intel, simply put. In a raid environment, especially world bosses, you'll see a massive improvement.

The 8350 @ 4.0ghz will give you about a 20% boost. (stock speed)
The 4670K @ 4.0ghz will give you about a 140% boost. (mild overclock)

I was aware of an increase, but not to that degree.
An incentive to continue saving up for upgrades, and possibly a change in priorities.
Was thinking first a GPU replacement for power saving, going from a 250 gts to a (possible) 750ti, but maybe moving to z97 with the anniversary or an i3 with future options would be a better approach, as it would almost certainly do more for performance.
Currently Phenom II 810 at stock 2.6GHz (stock cooler) and Asus M4N78.
Income is limited, so neither is going to be "soon".

[misfit0r]

I was aware of an increase, but not to that degree.
An incentive to continue saving up for upgrades, and possibly a change in priorities.
Was thinking first a GPU replacement for power saving, going from a 250 gts to a (possible) 750ti, but maybe moving to z97 with the anniversary or an i3 with future options would be a better approach, as it would almost certainly do more for performance.
Currently Phenom II 810 at stock 2.6GHz (stock cooler) and Asus M4N78.
Income is limited, so neither is going to be "soon".

Wow, I missed the 140% first read through. That can't be accurate, right?
Money isn't really much of an issue for me...

Wait a minute. Is that for me or am I just totally confused now!?

[Warrax]

Performance per core will pretty much double if you upgrade from stock 1055T to stock 4690k. From 1055T to FX 8350 it's about 25% both at stock. IPC from 3.5ghz Piledriver to 3.5ghz Haswell is about 60% more.

[misfit0r]

Thanks Guys.

I stood in the store for a good hour yesterday going over the specs on each board... Eventually I gave up and just went home.
Spent a good amount of time comparing different boards and reading reviews and THOUGHT I had talked myself out of the upgrade.

But the shop is on the way home from work and I let the impulse buyer in me take over.
Walked out with a z97-PRO (3.1 WiFi/ac version) and a 4690k.

Now it's on to backing everything up I want/need and getting the new toy all setup before buyers remorse sets in! HAHA

[Remilia]

Now it's on to backing everything up I want/need and getting the new toy all setup before buyers remorse sets in! HAHA

Remorse remorse remorse!
There's nothing wrong with the choice though.

[misfit0r]

PRO TIP -- NEVER EVER EVER swap from AMD to Intel with the Antec Kuhler 920...
That damned thing was a PITA to get apart to swap out the mount brackets.

WTF moment - windows 7 didn't auto-detect the damned LAN driver (or video card!? oi..)
Can't remember the last time I actually had to use a supplied driver disc for anything O.o

[Aleksej89]

Intel i5 4690K is the "best value for gaming" currently on the market.
If you got money to burn you can go for an i7 4790K but it is absolutely not mandatory for regular gaming.

Either way get a proper Asus/Gigabyte "Z97 chipset" motherboard to go along with the i5/i7.
With it you can overclock the CPU when needed (that is why the K model of intel CPUs are awesome).

I do not recommend getting anything AMD for gaming, just don't.
Intel is both better and more reliable, and the i5-4690K is worth every $.

[Pyrophobia]

Intel i5 4690K is the "best value for gaming" currently on the market.
If you got money to burn you can go for an i7 4790K but it is absolutely not mandatory for regular gaming.

Either way get a proper Asus/Gigabyte "Z97 chipset" motherboard to go along with the i5/i7.
With it you can overclock the CPU when needed (that is why the K model of intel CPUs are awesome).

I do not recommend getting anything AMD for gaming, just don't.
Intel is both better and more reliable, and the i5-4690K is worth every $.

Right because a 9590 / 9370 AMD or even a 8350 that both cost less than the 4690K both perform much better in multicore enviroment ... much much better.
Then ppl will say but Single thread performance is what matters yet while it matters it does not matter as much when WoW has 40+ threads that even with 2 bigger ones can spread quite equaly to the 4 cores the above AMD processors run.

Then recording while playing adds to the other cores if the load is not properly spread from the game alone.

WOW IS NOT A SINGLETHREADED GAME - caps for the ppl that still don't get it.

I run a GTX 650 stock with AMD 8350 no OC the GPU caps on Ultra settings with 95%+ load while the CPU sits at 40-50% with equal load on the 4 cores. If i was upgrading the CPU right now would of gotten the 9590 instead. Next thing is better GPU thou ...

[Lathais]

Right because a 9590 / 9370 AMD or even a 8350 that both cost less than the 4690K both perform much better in multicore enviroment ... much much better.
Then ppl will say but Single thread performance is what matters yet while it matters it does not matter as much when WoW has 40+ threads that even with 2 bigger ones can spread quite equaly to the 4 cores the above AMD processors run.

Then recording while playing adds to the other cores if the load is not properly spread from the game alone.

WOW IS NOT A SINGLETHREADED GAME - caps for the ppl that still don't get it.

I run a GTX 650 stock with AMD 8350 no OC the GPU caps on Ultra settings with 95%+ load while the CPU sits at 40-50% with equal load on the 4 cores. If i was upgrading the CPU right now would of gotten the 9590 instead. Next thing is better GPU thou ...

WoW may be multi-threaded, however, the primary thread is large and only runs on a single core. There are some like 40-ish other threads that handle little things, but the main thread that handles all the draw calls is one large thread that is far larger than the others. There is no question about this, it has been proven 100 times over. If you take two identical machines, one with a 8350/AMD MoBo and one with an intel Pentium G3258/intel MoBo, the crappy little $60 dual core G3258 will perform better in WoW and most other MMOs. It's just a fact.

[Kagthul]

A mini would look awfully inadequate in my Eleven Hundred. HEH!
Also, as nice it it might be to drop down to the Mini ITX - The R9 280 wouldn't allow for that either :|
Unless I'm missing something.

Why would an mITX MoBo not allow you to use your R9 280?

- - - Updated - - -

Right because a 9590 / 9370 AMD or even a 8350 that both cost less than the 4690K both perform much better in multicore enviroment ... much much better.
Then ppl will say but Single thread performance is what matters yet while it matters it does not matter as much when WoW has 40+ threads that even with 2 bigger ones can spread quite equaly to the 4 cores the above AMD processors run.

Then recording while playing adds to the other cores if the load is not properly spread from the game alone.

WOW IS NOT A SINGLETHREADED GAME - caps for the ppl that still don't get it.

I run a GTX 650 stock with AMD 8350 no OC the GPU caps on Ultra settings with 95%+ load while the CPU sits at 40-50% with equal load on the 4 cores. If i was upgrading the CPU right now would of gotten the 9590 instead. Next thing is better GPU thou ...

WOW IS PRIMARILY A SINGLE-THREADED GAME, since you apparently cant Google any of the 10,000 threads, proofs, benchmarks, et al that exist that categorically PROVE that the ONLY metric for performance in WoW is single-threaded performance.

Lathais already covered most of the whys.

However, i'd love to shed some light on your claim that the AMD CPUs will "run rings around" the 4690K.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

The FX-8350 is the most comparable price wise to the 4690K...

FX-8350 (8 Cores/4 modules, 4Ghz stock) - 8982 - 195$
Core i5 4690K (4 Cores/no HT, 3.5 Ghz stock) - 7770 - 199$

Not exactly blowing the roof off, there, especially when you consider the FX8350 is clocked 500Mhz higher stock, and has FOUR MORE CORES.. yet the i5 still comes within 12%. If you Overclock the i5 to the same 4Ghz, it narrows down to less than a 2% performance difference.... with HALF the cores. That's how much better Intel's IPC is.

And if you want to Overclock that FX, better be ready to pay out for a GOOD AMD motherboard with great heatsinks on the VRMs and other hardware, theyre notorious for melting down midrange and crap boards because of their power consumption and heat (TDP is about 50% higher on the FX-8350).

Moving on to the much higher end CPUs you mentioned:

FX 9370 (8 cores/4 modules, 4.4Ghz stock) - 9578 - 219$
FX 9590 (8 cores/4 modules, 4.7Ghz stock) - 10,279 - 242$

They both cost more than the i5, and both pretty much REQUIRE a 170$+ Motherboard unless you want them to cook the VRMs and destroy the board. Even then, the FX 9370 isnt exactly blowing the i5 out of the water - 22% faster or so, and that's largely becuase of the 900Mhz higher base clock.

When you get to the FX 9590, you're far better off comparing it to what it is actually competing against, which is a Core i7 4790K:

FX 9590 (8 cores/4 modules, 4.7Ghz stock) - 10,279 - 242$
Core i7 4790K (4 Cores/4 Virtual Cores (8 Threads) - 4.0Ghz stock) - 11,244 - 279$

At stock clocks - 700 Mhz slower than the AMD part - the i7 still handily leads by over 10%. Clocking the i7 up to 4.7Ghz extends that lead to almost 20%. And this is -still- from a part that is only 4 "real" cores (with hyperthreading) vs an 8 core part. And then lets talk power consumption - the FX 9590 is a mind-blowing 220W TDP, where the i7 is only 88W - call it about ~100W @ 4.7Ghz - OVER HALF the power consumption.

AMD doesn't compete. It's not fanboying, it's not because im in love with Intel. Facts dont lie. You're doing yourself no favors, ever, by buying an AMD CPU at current.

[misfit0r]

Why would an mITX MoBo not allow you to use your R9 280?

Are there mITX cases that will fit the r9 280 -- with sufficient breathing room that wouldn't have cost an arm an a leg?

really here nor there since I already picked up the mobo\cpu yesterday and completed the update

[Kagthul]

Are there mITX cases that will fit the r9 280 -- with sufficient breathing room that wouldn't have cost an arm an a leg?

really here nor there since I already picked up the mobo\cpu yesterday and completed the update

Plenty. Bit-Fenix has at least two - the Prodigy And Phenom come immediately to mind - the EVGA Hadron Air my rig is in would fit it quite easily (fits a full length GTX 970 just fine), and there are dozens of ohers that will fit full size GPUs (Cooler Master Elite 110, 120; Thermaltake V1, Silverstone FT-03).

[Deleted]

Do you have anything specific in mind or restrictions on how big the mitx is. Hmm, you mentioned you got the Z97-pro with wifi, thats the asus right? thats a proper atx mobo? Can you link the exact mobo you got and also let us know if you need something specific for case dimensions.

[Warrax]

WTF moment - windows 7 didn't auto-detect the damned LAN driver

It's normal, it always happens. Win7 is 2009/2010 and you're using 2014 hardware.

AMD doesn't compete. It's not fanboying, it's not because im in love with Intel. Facts dont lie. You're doing yourself no favors, ever, by buying an AMD CPU at current.

Had to quote this. People need to stop with their excuses to use AMD CPUs, it's not 2004 anymore and yeah I which AMD was better than Intel, pretty much everyone wish that.